My wife getting scared

"Jay Honeck" wrote

I have no statistics to back
this up, but I think it's the application of full power from idle (as
in a go-round, touch and go, or engine out emergency landing practice)
that causes the most wear and tear.


I really don't understand your thoughts on this stance, Jay.

I know you have said you slowly apply power for takeoffs, but if you did
that at the end of the engine out emergency landing practice, how is that
different than takeoffs?
--
Jim in NC

On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 18:53:59 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Jay Honeck" wrote

I have no statistics to back
this up, but I think it's the application of full power from idle (as
in a go-round, touch and go, or engine out emergency landing practice)
that causes the most wear and tear.


I really don't understand your thoughts on this stance, Jay.

I know you have said you slowly apply power for takeoffs, but if you did
that at the end of the engine out emergency landing practice, how is that
different than takeoffs?


Exact point I was going to make. You take off at least once every flight
anyway, so why worry about it? And as Matt says, running the engine
before the oil has spread through it is probably a lot worse. When I was
learing to start my fuel-injected engine, I ran it close to 2000rpm by
accident after starting, a couple of times. That really bothered me and
I expected John Deakin to show up and yell at me. I quickly learned the
importance of throttle position.




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I really don't understand your thoughts on this stance, Jay.

I know you have said you slowly apply power for takeoffs, but if you did
that at the end of the engine out emergency landing practice, how is that
different than takeoffs?

Whenever we practiced engine-out emergencies, as students, it seemed
we always jammed the throttle full forward when we figured we had the
field made. Of course, we also didn't lean the engine at all, and had
no compunction about running the engine at high RPMs immediately after
start-up.

I don't think there's any reason to NOT apply the throttle slowly
during an engine-out exercise, other than student "panic" as the
ground approached. I'll give it a whirl next time we go up.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Shirl wrote:

I just wanted to emphasize that our
competency levels fluctuate and may not be the same three months in the
future as they are today. I know no one here needs to be told that.
Shirl

Actually, your competence level can fluctuate from flight to flight,
even within a specific flight.
This is a subject of much concern in the air show community, and carries
over as well to all pilots.
--
Dudley Henriques

Jay Honeck wrote:
I really don't understand your thoughts on this stance, Jay.

I know you have said you slowly apply power for takeoffs, but if you did
that at the end of the engine out emergency landing practice, how is that
different than takeoffs?

Whenever we practiced engine-out emergencies, as students, it seemed
we always jammed the throttle full forward when we figured we had the
field made. Of course, we also didn't lean the engine at all, and had
no compunction about running the engine at high RPMs immediately after
start-up.

I don't think there's any reason to NOT apply the throttle slowly
during an engine-out exercise, other than student "panic" as the
ground approached. I'll give it a whirl next time we go up.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


I hate to get into this one while you guys are hashing this out, but
from my perspective, the secret to handling an aircraft engine correctly
is in "managing the pressures and temps". This is how we treat high
powered radials and in lines and it flows over to light engines as well.
There's no huge issue with go arounds or shock cooling as long as you
use common sense with the way you handle the throttle on an aircraft engine.
The trick is smooth power application and reduction; it's that simple.
Jamming in a throttle or going straight down to idle from a high power
setting is simply poor engine management technique. Anything sudden that
changes the pressures and temps should be avoided as a general rule in
handling an aircraft engine.
If you plan what you are doing with the airplane so that it precludes
sudden power changes you are pretty much in the ok ball park.
Even engine clearing during an approach should be slow and smooth.
It's all in the technique you use on the throttle, and in how you manage
the engine pressures and temps. This of course includes the proper use
of cowl flaps.
DH


--
Dudley Henriques

Shirl:
I just wanted to emphasize that our competency levels
fluctuate and may not be the same three months in the
future as they are today. I know no one here needs to be
told that.

Dudley Henriques wrote:
Actually, your competence level can fluctuate from flight to
flight, even within a specific flight. This is a subject of much
concern in the air show community, and carries over as well
to all pilots.

That was what I was trying to say, that competency doesn't just stay at
a high level all by itself. Isn't that the best reason for practicing
emergencies from time to time (not on *every* flight)? or for doing
occasional T&Gs or an intentional go-around every once in a while? In
teaching skating, *timing* was the first thing to go when competitors
had a gap in training or were having more "off" than "on" days, and the
source of the problem was often a very basic element in the maneuver,
and correcting it required a reiteration/brush-up on that element before
putting it all back together again. Sometimes if you train *too* much on
days when you're "off", whatever isn't going well can inadvertently be
reinforced and harder to undo. I've wondered if that happens w/air show
pilots?

Shirl

Shirl wrote:
Shirl:
I just wanted to emphasize that our competency levels
fluctuate and may not be the same three months in the
future as they are today. I know no one here needs to be
told that.

Dudley Henriques wrote:
Actually, your competence level can fluctuate from flight to
flight, even within a specific flight. This is a subject of much
concern in the air show community, and carries over as well
to all pilots.

That was what I was trying to say, that competency doesn't just stay at
a high level all by itself. Isn't that the best reason for practicing
emergencies from time to time (not on *every* flight)? or for doing
occasional T&Gs or an intentional go-around every once in a while? In
teaching skating, *timing* was the first thing to go when competitors
had a gap in training or were having more "off" than "on" days, and the
source of the problem was often a very basic element in the maneuver,
and correcting it required a reiteration/brush-up on that element before
putting it all back together again. Sometimes if you train *too* much on
days when you're "off", whatever isn't going well can inadvertently be
reinforced and harder to undo. I've wondered if that happens w/air show
pilots?

Shirl


Absolutely. In fact, with display pilots one of the more serious issues
if not THE most serious issue involved in this venue is in NOT over
practicing something to the point of acquiring a rote response which is
too rigid and structured as opposed to the more fluid response available
when a bit more relaxed.
It's a tight rope that has to be walked VERY carefully. The rub is that
no two pilots are alike in response and knowing exactly when enough is
enough when it comes to practice is highly individual.

In the more relaxed world of normal pleasure flying, a pilot still needs
to practice but not at the same levels. What I have always recommended
to GA pilots is that they start early on in their flying careers to
develop a habit pattern that treats each flight as a learning
experience. Even flying locally around the airport on a Sunday
afternoon, a pilot should pick something on that flight to concentrate
on and try to make better. It could be coordination into and exiting
turns; a practice power off approach from a key position, or my favorite
for a Sunday flight.......keeping the altimeter needle covering a
specific digit on the altimeter face for an exercise in simple straight
and level flight :-)
DH

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote:
Shirl wrote:

I just wanted to emphasize that our
competency levels fluctuate and may not be the same three months in
the future as they are today. I know no one here needs to be told
that. Shirl

Actually, your competence level can fluctuate from flight to flight,
even within a specific flight.
This is a subject of much concern in the air show community, and carries
over as well to all pilots.

Yes, mine fluctuates from the start of a long flight until the end of
the flight! :-)

Matt

In my experience, every mechanical thing last longer when treated
gently.

Young people -- especially young men -- take a long time to learn
this.

I think part of this is learned and sinks in more once you start paying
for your own stuff and its associated maintenance out of your own
pocket, with money YOU have earned!

A friend of mine, whose four kids were all a little older than my four
kids, told me his car maintenance and repair bills had gone up 25% when
his kids began to drive. He said a mechanic told him that was typical.

Learning from his experience, I told my kids that when they began to
drive, they would have to pay the additional insurance premium, plus
their share of gas, oil, and maintenance.

When they discovered the incremental insurance alone was about $160 per
year, they decided they really didn't want to drive after all.

One benefit of that is that they are all still alive.

vince norris

Jay,

I would agree with that. Full power/idle power cycles are very hard
on engines -- and that is what you're doing in a touch & go.

I wonder where you would get a hint of data to support that statement.
Certainly not from flight schools.

Touch & goes aren't necessary to practice after your first 1000 or so
landings, IMHO. If you don't have it down pat by then, a few more
T&Gs isn't gonna help, and the beating your plane takes during the T&G
process is something to be avoided.

No offense, but you're making very bold, sweepingly general statements from
your personal little world view again, a trap you so often like to fall
into. Not everybody gets to fly as often as you do, for various reasons.
Not everybody owns a plane. Those of us with lengthy pauses in their flying
do indeed need to practice touch&gos after a while. Those of us flying
different models need to, too. There's a ton of other reasons why to do
T&Gs. Apart from that, I don't see the "beating" part as a necessary
consequence, either.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)