LX-4000, Ilec SB-8/ASR, or B-100 Flight Computer?

On Nov 7, 10:32 am, "
wrote:
On Nov 7, 9:52 am, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:

Actually several of the LX series have a fluxgate compass input for
just this reason. I have no experience using them.

I have the compass on my LX 7000. It is a pain to get aligned and even
a small alignment error seems to affect the wind estimates, so I have
stuck with the circling mode. Without good heading data I think it is
impossible to estimate wind direction and speed in straight flight -
you can estimate headwind component based on true airspeed versus
ground speed if you have altitude (and temperature?) inputs, though I
am unsure as to which systems offer this.

I also run WinPilot and have found the two are generally pretty close
on winds - though not always, which make you wonder on those long
final glides...

9B

Bill Daniels wrote:
Well, having flown over the mountains and plains while listening to other
pilots reporting wind from all points of the compass, I've jotted down their
readings, my data and the time. Later I compared that to the data collected
by a real-time NOAA wind profiler 16NM away. Using the wind profiler as a
reference, all of our calculated winds aloft data were highly unreliable.
No one was better than the others and all were way off. The only useful
data was collected while circling and then only if the circles were perfect,
otherwise it's is a rough approximation..

To get accurate real-time wind data in flight you need four input variables,
ground track, ground speed, trufe airspeed, and true heading. The last is
because winds aloft data are referenced to true north. To date, all glide
software omits heading input.

Bill Daniels

Another local pilot and I have compared wind calculations when flying in
the same area. He has an L-NAV, and I use SeeYou. Both units are using
airspeed data. Often the wind speeds are within a knot or two of each
other, and wind direction often is the same within a few degrees.

Either both units have amazingly similar errors, or both are quite accurate.

On Nov 7, 11:45 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
So how do you know for sure that a particular software produces accurate
wind data? It seems that any test would require accurate wind data
determined by some highly trusted independent method to compare with the
software output.

Bildan

Exactly. Creating an accurate algorithm requires testing against
known data. In our case, the algorithms were developed testing
against carefully measured datasets, and stress tested against
common instrumentation errors such as static errors common
in our toys. In addition, I have tested our as-implemented
algorithms against data derived with the addition of heading
sensors.

Other algorithms may not have been so tested.

Hope this is helpful,
Best Regards, Dave "YO"

PS: Compasses don't work so good. Don't ask me how
we know.

PPS: These algorithms do not work well when wind changes
rapidly (flying into a seabreeze etc), or in extended straight
flight...

On Nov 7, 4:44 am, wrote:
On Nov 6, 10:30 pm, Richard wrote:

Software is what calculates the wind not the instrument.

More than 98% of the engineering content of a flight
computer is software. The instrument is in fact mostly
software. And the software is completely different
in the different instruments.

Most instruments have pitot and temperature inputs
and I beleive all use calculation of wind from circling drift in a
theraml, course change, True Airspeed and GPS info.

Incorrect. ILEC SN10 certainly does not require circling
to calculate wind; you'll often get a wind indication on
tow.

They all probably use slightly different combinations
of the inputs and use a different formula.

Right. So, talk to experienced XC pilots who have
*really* flown with these instruments, and find out which
ones are considered to produce reliable wind info.
Your mileage will vary. A lot.

Hope that's helpful,
Best Regards, Dave "YO"

Dave,

I have flown will all the instruments mention in my post. I am sorry
for being slightly incorrect on my paragraph about wind calculation.

It should have said: Most calculate wind from some of the following
inputs circling drift in a
theraml, course change, True Airspeed and GPS info.

I have **really** flown with all the instruments and software
mentioned. Even the SN10 for an entire summer (approx 200 hours).
I found the SN10 just as good as the other instruments.
Last year I flew approx 250 hours with B500, B2000 and WinPilot and
for several months the LX1600 with SeeYou Mobile running on an
embedded computer in the panel with a large color screen 6" diagonal.
There is a small picture on the top of my home page of this setup.
More will follow on my web as I work on this system.

Thanks for correcting my mistakes.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

Richard wrote:

Last year I flew approx 250 hours with B500, B2000 and WinPilot and
for several months the LX1600 with SeeYou Mobile running on an
embedded computer in the panel with a large color screen 6" diagonal.
There is a small picture on the top of my home page of this setup.
More will follow on my web as I work on this system.

I'm guessing by the left-handed flying and the trackball on the right
that the system doesn't have touch screen!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

On Nov 8, 5:15 pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Richard wrote:
Last year I flew approx 250 hours with B500, B2000 and WinPilot and
for several months the LX1600 with SeeYou Mobile running on an
embedded computer in the panel with a large color screen 6" diagonal.
There is a small picture on the top of my home page of this setup.
More will follow on my web as I work on this system.

I'm guessing by the left-handed flying and the trackball on the right
that the system doesn't have touch screen!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes"http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" atwww.motorglider.org

Eric,

It does also have a touch screen, but I found that the ball track was
easier to use. I also moved the ball track and strapped it on my
leg.

Got any ideas for a small ball track? or a different input device.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

"Richard" wrote in message
Got any ideas for a small ball track? or a different input device.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

This work?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2x-UDka4pU

Bill Daniels

Richard wrote:
It does also have a touch screen, but I found that the ball track was
easier to use.

Would moving the screen a few inches towards the rear from the panel
make the touch screen acceptable? I really like the touch screen input
when using GNII or SeeYou Mobile.

I also moved the ball track and strapped it on my
leg.

Got any ideas for a small ball track? or a different input device.

These look interesting:

No trackball to fall out...

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mi...s/407&cl=us,en

Small and ambidextrous...

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mi...s/156&cl=us,en

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

On Nov 9, 4:26 pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Richard wrote:
It does also have a touch screen, but I found that the ball track was
easier to use.

Would moving the screen a few inches towards the rear from the panel
make the touch screen acceptable? I really like the touch screen input
when using GNII or SeeYou Mobile.

I also moved the ball track and strapped it on my
leg.

Got any ideas for a small ball track? or a different input device.

These look interesting:

No trackball to fall out...

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mi...controller/dev...

Small and ambidextrous...

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mi...lls/devices/15...

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes"http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" atwww.motorglider.org

I tried the second mice but the bigger one was easier to use. I may
order that first ambidextrous one and see how it works.

I would have to make a case for the display and computer to more the
panel closer to me,but it would probably be better. I found that the
touch was not as positive as one on an ipaq.

Thanks,

Richard
www.craggyaero.com