Ferry flight a commercial op?

Helen wrote in
news:5zs_i.5854$VB6.2737@trnddc06:

The FAA can interpret you logging the flight time as compensation and
as such the CFI is correct. I've actually had a long chat with AOPA
on this subject. I manage a light sport flight school and most of my
staff are age 60+ and don't carry medicals. They'd need a second
class one to ferry a plane if we paid them for their time. If they
volunteer their time though, it gets gray. AOPA is pretty certain
though we're OK letting them ferry planes as volunteers though just
for the simple fact that the FAA would have a hard time making a case
that a 68 year old 40,000 hour pilot, really considered the .5 of
hobbs time as compensation he could use for his up and coming career.

Assuming you aren't age 68 with 40,000 hours, you should probably
avoid the ferry duty.


I disagree. There's nothing in the FARs that says that flying time has a
value.
If you go pich up your friend's car somewhere for him it doesn't make you a
taxi driver.

Bertie

No, but it IS in their legal rulings.

Helen

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Helen wrote in
news:5zs_i.5854$VB6.2737@trnddc06:

The FAA can interpret you logging the flight time as compensation and
as such the CFI is correct. I've actually had a long chat with AOPA
on this subject. I manage a light sport flight school and most of my
staff are age 60+ and don't carry medicals. They'd need a second
class one to ferry a plane if we paid them for their time. If they
volunteer their time though, it gets gray. AOPA is pretty certain
though we're OK letting them ferry planes as volunteers though just
for the simple fact that the FAA would have a hard time making a case
that a 68 year old 40,000 hour pilot, really considered the .5 of
hobbs time as compensation he could use for his up and coming career.

Assuming you aren't age 68 with 40,000 hours, you should probably
avoid the ferry duty.


I disagree. There's nothing in the FARs that says that flying time has a
value.
If you go pich up your friend's car somewhere for him it doesn't make you a
taxi driver.

Bertie

Helen wrote in
news:KSs_i.5976$VB6.2248@trnddc06:

No, but it IS in their legal rulings.



Still, can't se them making a case out of it unless they were trying to get
at someone for something else that was upsetting them.



I know one I can ask next time I see him, but he's the most anti FAA person
I ever met, even though he's an inspector for them.



Bertie

Here's a good write-up on the subject. Note in the case listed, it
wasn't even logged flight hours that the FAA cited as "compensation,"
but simply "good will."

http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...04/pc0403.html

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Helen wrote in
news:5zs_i.5854$VB6.2737@trnddc06:

The FAA can interpret you logging the flight time as compensation and
as such the CFI is correct. I've actually had a long chat with AOPA
on this subject. I manage a light sport flight school and most of my
staff are age 60+ and don't carry medicals. They'd need a second
class one to ferry a plane if we paid them for their time. If they
volunteer their time though, it gets gray. AOPA is pretty certain
though we're OK letting them ferry planes as volunteers though just
for the simple fact that the FAA would have a hard time making a case
that a 68 year old 40,000 hour pilot, really considered the .5 of
hobbs time as compensation he could use for his up and coming career.

Assuming you aren't age 68 with 40,000 hours, you should probably
avoid the ferry duty.


I disagree. There's nothing in the FARs that says that flying time has a
value.
If you go pich up your friend's car somewhere for him it doesn't make you a
taxi driver.

Bertie

He fed you that line because he is not getting paid to ferry the aircraft.
Is the buyer paying for your time or travel expenses? No? Have fun, fly
safe.
B

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
Our flying club sold our PA32R Lance because very few people were flying
it. As one of that few, I offered to ferry it out to the buyer. A CFI in
the club said I can't, because it's a commercial operation, even though
I'm not getting paid. Is he right?

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
The WWW is exciting because Microsoft doesn't own it, and therefore,
there's a tremendous amount of innovation happening.
-- Steve Jobs

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 00:01:14 +0000 (UTC),
(Paul Tomblin) wrote in :

Our flying club sold our PA32R Lance because very few people were flying
it. As one of that few, I offered to ferry it out to the buyer. A CFI in
the club said I can't, because it's a commercial operation, even though
I'm not getting paid. Is he right?

Who's funding the flight (time, fuel, insurance,...)?

And additional...
http://www.aopa.org/members/ftmag/ar...m?article=1467

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Helen wrote in
news:5zs_i.5854$VB6.2737@trnddc06:

The FAA can interpret you logging the flight time as compensation and
as such the CFI is correct. I've actually had a long chat with AOPA
on this subject. I manage a light sport flight school and most of my
staff are age 60+ and don't carry medicals. They'd need a second
class one to ferry a plane if we paid them for their time. If they
volunteer their time though, it gets gray. AOPA is pretty certain
though we're OK letting them ferry planes as volunteers though just
for the simple fact that the FAA would have a hard time making a case
that a 68 year old 40,000 hour pilot, really considered the .5 of
hobbs time as compensation he could use for his up and coming career.

Assuming you aren't age 68 with 40,000 hours, you should probably
avoid the ferry duty.


I disagree. There's nothing in the FARs that says that flying time has a
value.
If you go pich up your friend's car somewhere for him it doesn't make you a
taxi driver.

Bertie

I have a legal opinion in PDF format on the subject some place around here
time is considered compensation unless you have a common purpose for the
trip visiting grandma/grab an ice cream cone then you would have to pay all
fuel etc for the trip to make it a non ferry flight.

NW_Pilot "A Ferry Pilot That Gets Paid"



"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
Helen wrote in
news:5zs_i.5854$VB6.2737@trnddc06:

The FAA can interpret you logging the flight time as compensation and
as such the CFI is correct. I've actually had a long chat with AOPA
on this subject. I manage a light sport flight school and most of my
staff are age 60+ and don't carry medicals. They'd need a second
class one to ferry a plane if we paid them for their time. If they
volunteer their time though, it gets gray. AOPA is pretty certain
though we're OK letting them ferry planes as volunteers though just
for the simple fact that the FAA would have a hard time making a case
that a 68 year old 40,000 hour pilot, really considered the .5 of
hobbs time as compensation he could use for his up and coming career.

Assuming you aren't age 68 with 40,000 hours, you should probably
avoid the ferry duty.


I disagree. There's nothing in the FARs that says that flying time has a
value.
If you go pich up your friend's car somewhere for him it doesn't make you
a
taxi driver.

Bertie

Just call AOPA. All of our membership dollars pay those folks to sit
around reading the FAA legal interpretations. You'll be surprised at
some of the petty cases the FAA has taken on under this rule to
prosecute well meaning pilots.

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Helen wrote in
news:KSs_i.5976$VB6.2248@trnddc06:

No, but it IS in their legal rulings.



Still, can't se them making a case out of it unless they were trying to get
at someone for something else that was upsetting them.



I know one I can ask next time I see him, but he's the most anti FAA person
I ever met, even though he's an inspector for them.



Bertie

"Helen" wrote in message
news:8ft_i.6111$VB6.5184@trnddc06...

Just call AOPA. All of our membership dollars pay those folks to sit
around reading the FAA legal interpretations. You'll be surprised at some
of the petty cases the FAA has taken on under this rule to prosecute well
meaning pilots.


Legal interpretations are nothing, look for rulings.