RIP Cessna...Skycatcher

"Gatt" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .

It was purchased and destroyed.

Actually, the competition improved, but WordPerfect did not.

You're an idiot.

I was a contractor at Netscape when IE4.0 came out. Basically, it
looked just like somebody stole the internal alpha copy of Netscape
Communicator.



(After Internet Exploder's release party in San Francisco, they
dropped a giant blue paper-mache-and-chickenwire "e" on the front lawn
of Netscape. Which would add trespassing and littering to theft,
except that by noon the 7' Netscape lizard, "Mozilla" was standing on
the yard among the smashed remains of the Microsoft "e".)

In Netscape's case, the competition didn't "improve." They stole
proprietary code and used massive personnel resources to get it to
market before the smaller company.


Who cares? I use wahtever works best and that's still mozilla for me..

I wouldn't expect people in
Europe to understand how that sort of thing happened in terms of web
browsers, word processors, spreadsheets and other "Microsoft products"
that bear striking resemblances to former competitors.


Yeah, they're still using two tin cans and piecs of string there.


Bertie

"Matt W. Barrow" wrote in message
...

Maybe you could verify something for me: I've heard for some time that,
though MS is quick to prosecute piracy and reverse engineering MS stuff,
they expend copious amounts of money reverse engineering competitors
products.

True or trash?

Well, my only experience to that end was with Netscape Communicator/Internet
Explorer, but, once you catch a thief you might as well always assume
they're thieves, especially when their other products look so much like,
say, Lotus 1-2-3 (Excel) or Word Perfect (Word.)
I would say that's very accurate.

Microsoft didn't invent the word processor, spreadsheet, e-mail application
or web browser, but they sure sell a lot. I know people who work for
companies under the Microsoft-owned umbrella who don't reverse-engineer
code, but it clearly happens.

-c

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .

In Netscape's case, the competition didn't "improve." They stole
proprietary code and used massive personnel resources to get it to
market before the smaller company.

Who cares? I use wahtever works best and that's still mozilla for me..

That was a dark week. I was there the day they came in and told a bunch of
the engineers that AOL was integrating their software (Instant Messenger),
which was the harbinger. They knew it was a matter of time before AOL
merged with Netscape. It all went downhill from there, which is how there's
Firefox.

'Course, I hear the new Internet Explorer has many of the internal and
external features of Firefox.

I wouldn't expect people in Europe to understand how that sort of thing
happened in terms of web
browsers, word processors, spreadsheets and other "Microsoft products"
that bear striking resemblances to former competitors.

Yeah, they're still using two tin cans and piecs of string there.

Well, more importantly, they don't have exposure to the Silicon Valley or
Seattle scuttlebutt that you find on the West Coast as technology types
shift jobs and interact over time. One time, Netscape and Microsoft shared
an outsourced call center in Oregon under a rule that they couldn't be in
the same room together. Not only were they in the same room, only a cube
wall separated them. I was there as a technical writer. A Netscape
contractor turned on a computer, the circuit-breaker flipped....and Win95
technical support went down.

Stream International lied bigtime to cover that one up, and separated the
teams, but for awhile Netscape tech support could hear Win95 support techs
on the telephone. Some of those guys jumped from one team to the other.

(If that wasn't sleazy enough, they sold a contract to a great
company--Adobe--who required domestic, US-based technical support. So the
calls came into the Oregon office and then auto-forwarded to Nova Scotia or
somewhere. Right now I work with guys who were sent to Canada on a project,
only to learn that they were there to train their replacements. A
non-disclosure agreement prevented them from divulging what was happening to
Adobe.)

-c

Gatt wrote:
"Matt W. Barrow" wrote in message
...

Maybe you could verify something for me: I've heard for some time that,
though MS is quick to prosecute piracy and reverse engineering MS stuff,
they expend copious amounts of money reverse engineering competitors
products.

True or trash?

Well, my only experience to that end was with Netscape Communicator/Internet
Explorer, but, once you catch a thief you might as well always assume
they're thieves, especially when their other products look so much like,
say, Lotus 1-2-3 (Excel) or Word Perfect (Word.)
I would say that's very accurate.

I heard a wonderful story a few years ago.

Microsoft found some IBM technology that
appeared to infringe on a Microsoft patent.
The Microsoft lawyers called the IBM lawyers
and arranged a meeting. The Microsoft
lawyers handed the IBM lawyers the patent
in question and in return, the IBM lawyers
reached under the table, picked up a banker's
box filled with patents and gave it to the
Microsoft lawyers...

"Gatt" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .

In Netscape's case, the competition didn't "improve." They stole
proprietary code and used massive personnel resources to get it to
market before the smaller company.

Who cares? I use wahtever works best and that's still mozilla for
me..

That was a dark week. I was there the day they came in and told a
bunch of the engineers that AOL was integrating their software
(Instant Messenger), which was the harbinger. They knew it was a
matter of time before AOL merged with Netscape. It all went downhill
from there, which is how there's Firefox.

'Course, I hear the new Internet Explorer has many of the internal and
external features of Firefox.

I wouldn't expect people in Europe to understand how that sort of
thing happened in terms of web
browsers, word processors, spreadsheets and other "Microsoft
products" that bear striking resemblances to former competitors.

Yeah, they're still using two tin cans and piecs of string there.

Well, more importantly, they don't have exposure to the Silicon Valley
or Seattle scuttlebutt that you find on the West Coast as technology
types shift jobs and interact over time.


I think you might find that they do.


Bertie

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
.. .
Gatt wrote:
"Matt W. Barrow" wrote in message
...

Maybe you could verify something for me: I've heard for some time that,
though MS is quick to prosecute piracy and reverse engineering MS stuff,
they expend copious amounts of money reverse engineering competitors
products.

True or trash?

Well, my only experience to that end was with Netscape
Communicator/Internet Explorer, but, once you catch a thief you might as
well always assume they're thieves, especially when their other products
look so much like, say, Lotus 1-2-3 (Excel) or Word Perfect (Word.)
I would say that's very accurate.

I heard a wonderful story a few years ago.

Microsoft found some IBM technology that
appeared to infringe on a Microsoft patent.
The Microsoft lawyers called the IBM lawyers
and arranged a meeting. The Microsoft
lawyers handed the IBM lawyers the patent
in question and in return, the IBM lawyers
reached under the table, picked up a banker's
box filled with patents and gave it to the
Microsoft lawyers...

Sure it wasn't TI (Texas Instruments)? I vaguely remember the TI files tens
of thousands of patents each year on stuff that is nothing more than
notions, Sci-Fi fantasies, concepts and "smoke over the horizon" in hopes
that some where, somehow, some day, they can file a patent infringement case
after the real R&D has been done.

Gatt writes:

I was a contractor at Netscape when IE4.0 came out. Basically, it looked
just like somebody stole the internal alpha copy of Netscape Communicator.

You may be thinking of an earlier version. The earlier versions of IE were
very inferior to Netscape, but IE4 was better. Netscape continued to goof
off, and Microsoft steamrollered them. Netscape will go down in history as
one of the worst-managed companies that ever existed.

In Netscape's case, the competition didn't "improve."

Yes, it did. Netscape had an early success because it had no competition, and
a later failure when it finally did have competition. Netscape made just
about every mistake one could imagine. They could have had it all, but they
settled for nothing.

They stole proprietary code ...

Ever heard of NCSA Mosaic?

... and used massive personnel resources to get it to market before the
smaller company.

No, they just wrote a better browser. Netscape was so busy patting itself on
the back that it didn't notice, and it never even tried to catch up.

Matt W. Barrow writes:

Maybe you could verify something for me: I've heard for some time that,
though MS is quick to prosecute piracy and reverse engineering MS stuff,
they expend copious amounts of money reverse engineering competitors
products.

True or trash?

False. They are also extremely careful about avoiding piracy of software
themselves.

Mxsmanic wrote in
news
Gatt writes:

I was a contractor at Netscape when IE4.0 came out. Basically, it
looked just like somebody stole the internal alpha copy of Netscape
Communicator.

You may be thinking of an earlier version. The earlier versions of IE
were very inferior to Netscape, but IE4 was better. Netscape
continued to goof off, and Microsoft steamrollered them. Netscape
will go down in history as one of the worst-managed companies that
ever existed.

In Netscape's case, the competition didn't "improve."

Yes, it did. Netscape had an early success because it had no
competition, and a later failure when it finally did have competition.
Netscape made just about every mistake one could imagine. They could
have had it all, but they settled for nothing.

They stole proprietary code ...

Ever heard of NCSA Mosaic?

... and used massive personnel resources to get it to market before
the smaller company.

No, they just wrote a better browser. Netscape was so busy patting
itself on the back that it didn't notice, and it never even tried to
catch up.


You're an idiot.


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Matt W. Barrow writes:

Maybe you could verify something for me: I've heard for some time
that, though MS is quick to prosecute piracy and reverse engineering
MS stuff, they expend copious amounts of money reverse engineering
competitors products.

True or trash?

False. They are also extremely careful about avoiding piracy of
software themselves.




Idiot


Bertie