Help In Choosing A School For A Private Pilot's License

Jose wrote:
Instructors have plan and if a student flies with another instructor
who does not follow the principle instructors plan, it is a problem.

I strongly disagree. When I was taking primary lessons, I found that I
often learned more when I had a sub instructor =because= the approach or
the material was different. It is good to be exposed to different ways
of doing things, and different things in a different order.

Maybe that's just the way =I= am, but I doubt I'm all that unusual, and
I would not make the blanket statement that flying with another
instructor who doesn't follow the first's plan is "a problem".

Jose

It's more correct to say that flying with another instructor (who
confuses the student) can be a problem.

Naturally obtaining different opinions and different approaches to the
flying equation is beneficial. I don't believe Jim meant to convey that
it wasn't. I know I most certainly didn't mean to imply this.
Differing opinion is one thing. Differing opinion applied during a
structured training program DONE INEFFECTIVELY and without consideration
for how the student will react to this differing opinion can indeed be
harmful.
The bottom line is that differing opinion and viewpoint can be helpful
or it can be harmful. How this plays out defines the caliber and quality
of the teacher involved.

--
Dudley Henriques

That is the way it should be, but sometimes is not. It is one of the things
that should be looked for when selecting a school.



"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| I'll add one more think, the instructor/student relationship is very
| personal. Instructors have plan and if a student flies with another
| instructor who does not follow the principle instructors plan, it is a
| problem. Often the INSTRUCTOR has a series of step by step lesson
plans,
| concentrating on mastering airwork, turns of all kinds, ground reference
| maneuvers, airspeed control and is not ready for "landings" yet.
| The student is happy because they are flying and working hard and
learning
| the basics. But if the instructor is ill and another instructor subs a
| problem arises.
| #2 instructor may just say to the student, "You've got 8 hours, so let's
| stay in the pattern and practice take-offs and landings."
|
| So far your student has been doing the take-off and the landing at the
end
| of the flight, after being briefed and warmed up with slow flight,
glides
| and stalls.But after an hour of concentrated TO&L, confused and fixated
on
| the traffic pattern.
| When the INSTRUCTOR comes back, the student doesn't want to practice the
| mundane airwork, those crosswind landings are a challenge and fun. The
fact
| that the skill to really learn don't yet exist means the student feels
| overwhelmed. But it is hard to go back to those rectangular patterns,
| glides and turns, slow flight and pitch control exercises. So it is
| important that your instructors coordinate your lessons. It is valuable
to
| fly with more than one instructor as you progress in your training.
|
| But you and your instructor are not married nor welded at the hip, if a
| problem develops you can change and move on.
|
|
| This is true and can indeed be a problem. The way we handled this was
| that any instructor subbing for another one was charged with dealing
| with this situation in a prescribed manner;
| that being to review the student's log book and become familiar with the
| last thing covered, then do the dual session based on where the OTHER
| instructor was on the learning curve at that that time with THAT student
| In other words, the subbing CFI did just that...sub for the other
| instructor, gearing the time spent to where the subbing CFI felt the
| OTHER instructor would be going with that lesson.
| Our CFI's were told to use tact when in this situation. Any devience
| from what the prime instructor had told the student was handled
| carefully with the well being of the student in mind at all times.
| Instructors who entered into "do it my way" or "my way is the right way"
| contests with students didn't last long around me and the we did things.
| Our instructors would take something a student was doing wrong in these
| situations and guide the student through a correction if required in
| technique without ever mentioning they were approaching the issue a bit
| differently than another instructor on the staff.
| This of course meant that we had all our CFI's in "tune" with the way we
| did things so everybody got along, was totally competent, and most
| importantly on the same page all the time .
| --
| Dudley Henriques

If you read the whole thing, you'll see that I support flying with more than
one instructor, but particularly with a pre-solo student who does not have
the skill or experience to do a TO&L session. But the false expectation and
the bad habits, frustration and even failures that are likely create a
plateau or even a big back-slide. I've seen it happen, all the experienced
instructors have seen it and many students have experienced it.

At any school, the instructor need to be coordinated and if there is a Chief
Flight Instructor {approved school] they should have procedures in place
just the Henry said previously.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFII-ASMELI, A&P
BE400/BE1900-BE300
former Chief Flight Instructor
Gold Seal

"Jose" wrote in message
. net...
| Instructors have plan and if a student flies with another
| instructor who does not follow the principle instructors plan, it is a
| problem.
|
| I strongly disagree. When I was taking primary lessons, I found that I
often learned more when I had a sub instructor =because= the approach or the
material was different. It is good to be exposed to different ways of doing
things, and different things in a different order.
|
| Maybe that's just the way =I= am, but I doubt I'm all that unusual, and I
would not make the blanket statement that flying with another instructor who
doesn't follow the first's plan is "a problem".
|
| Jose
| --
| You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Sorry, was listening to radio and wrote Henry when I meant to say Dudley.
My bad.



"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
| If you read the whole thing, you'll see that I support flying with more
than
| one instructor, but particularly with a pre-solo student who does not have
| the skill or experience to do a TO&L session. But the false expectation
and
| the bad habits, frustration and even failures that are likely create a
| plateau or even a big back-slide. I've seen it happen, all the
experienced
| instructors have seen it and many students have experienced it.
|
| At any school, the instructor need to be coordinated and if there is a
Chief
| Flight Instructor {approved school] they should have procedures in place
| just the Henry said previously.
|
|
|
| --
| James H. Macklin
| ATP,CFII-ASMELI, A&P
| BE400/BE1900-BE300
| former Chief Flight Instructor
| Gold Seal
|
| "Jose" wrote in message
| . net...
|| Instructors have plan and if a student flies with another
|| instructor who does not follow the principle instructors plan, it is a
|| problem.
||
|| I strongly disagree. When I was taking primary lessons, I found that I
| often learned more when I had a sub instructor =because= the approach or
the
| material was different. It is good to be exposed to different ways of
doing
| things, and different things in a different order.
||
|| Maybe that's just the way =I= am, but I doubt I'm all that unusual, and I
| would not make the blanket statement that flying with another instructor
who
| doesn't follow the first's plan is "a problem".
||
|| Jose
|| --
|| You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
|| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
|
|

Right ON.



"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
| Jose wrote:
| Instructors have plan and if a student flies with another instructor
| who does not follow the principle instructors plan, it is a problem.
|
| I strongly disagree. When I was taking primary lessons, I found that I
| often learned more when I had a sub instructor =because= the approach or
| the material was different. It is good to be exposed to different ways
| of doing things, and different things in a different order.
|
| Maybe that's just the way =I= am, but I doubt I'm all that unusual, and
| I would not make the blanket statement that flying with another
| instructor who doesn't follow the first's plan is "a problem".
|
| Jose
|
| It's more correct to say that flying with another instructor (who
| confuses the student) can be a problem.
|
| Naturally obtaining different opinions and different approaches to the
| flying equation is beneficial. I don't believe Jim meant to convey that
| it wasn't. I know I most certainly didn't mean to imply this.
| Differing opinion is one thing. Differing opinion applied during a
| structured training program DONE INEFFECTIVELY and without consideration
| for how the student will react to this differing opinion can indeed be
| harmful.
| The bottom line is that differing opinion and viewpoint can be helpful
| or it can be harmful. How this plays out defines the caliber and quality
| of the teacher involved.
|
| --
| Dudley Henriques

It's more correct to say that flying with another instructor (who confuses the student) can be a problem.

Flying with =an= instructor who confuses the student is a problem, irrespective of whether it is the original instructor or a different one. The implication I picked up was that being exposed to a different approach is inherently confusing; it is that with which I disagree. Otherwise what you (and others) have said applies equally to the original instructor as to the substitute one.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
It's more correct to say that flying with another instructor (who
confuses the student) can be a problem.

Flying with =an= instructor who confuses the student is a problem,
irrespective of whether it is the original instructor or a different
one. The implication I picked up was that being exposed to a different
approach is inherently confusing; it is that with which I disagree.
Otherwise what you (and others) have said applies equally to the
original instructor as to the substitute one.

Jose

I'll be sure to look you up if I go back into flight instruction.

--
Dudley Henriques

I'll be sure to look you up if I go back into flight instruction.

Looking for somebody to confuse? That's too easy.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jim Macklin wrote:
If you read the whole thing, you'll see that I support flying with more than
one instructor, but particularly with a pre-solo student who does not have
the skill or experience to do a TO&L session. But the false expectation and
the bad habits, frustration and even failures that are likely create a
plateau or even a big back-slide. I've seen it happen, all the experienced
instructors have seen it and many students have experienced it.

At any school, the instructor need to be coordinated and if there is a Chief
Flight Instructor {approved school] they should have procedures in place
just the Henry said previously.



It's no use Jim. I've been dealing with Jose now for years. He seems
absolutely convinced that classroom teachers are WAY ahead of the curve
when it comes to us lowly CFI's :-) I don't think the guy has EVER asked
me a question about flight instruction. He just lectures and lectures
and lectures some more.
He's been informing me on how to teach people to fly for years :-))
Sorry Jose, but you might at least go out and get the rating and fly
with a few students before telling us how to best do the job.
No flame intended really :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

From the original post...
" So it is important that your instructors coordinate your lessons. It is
valuable to
fly with more than one instructor as you progress in your training."

Note the word plural INSTRUCTORS, LESSONS and more than one instructor.

Part of the problem with instruction is that most students only hear part of
what was said, which makes for incomplete learning.



"Jose" wrote in message
. net...
| It's more correct to say that flying with another instructor (who
confuses the student) can be a problem.
|
| Flying with =an= instructor who confuses the student is a problem,
irrespective of whether it is the original instructor or a different one.
The implication I picked up was that being exposed to a different approach
is inherently confusing; it is that with which I disagree. Otherwise what
you (and others) have said applies equally to the original instructor as to
the substitute one.
|
| Jose
| --
| You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.