Discovery Flight today...unexpected results

"DGS" wrote in message
...

Theres no doubt that I went into it thinking that my time on sims
would give me a leg up.

It will. You probably already know where to find and how to use a VOR in a
Cessna, for example, and cross-referencing the instrument panel will
probably be a lot easier and more native to you. Maybe not right away.

You just have to get past the mechanical differences of flying an airplane
versus simulating one. There will be a few sim habits to undo, but, as you
clearly already understand, the experience of the real deal entirely
overpowers the sim experience.

-c

"Alan Gerber" wrote in message
...
kontiki wrote:
The student does have a level of responsibility
to communicate with the instructor and the instructor has the
responsibility to respond to and accept the student. From
this relationship the learning process takes place.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with your advice. This was a discovery
flight; they didn't really *have* a true instructor/student relationship
yet.

I think Kontiki's advice is good for students who are underway with an
instructor, but I agree with you in this case.

In this experience, the Discovery Flight was also the instructor's job
interview for this potential client, and he failed. There is not yet a
realistic student-instructor relationship.

This is a good discussion, everybody.

-c

It's covered in the AIM, 3-1-18

Correction, that's 4-3-18.

"DGS" wrote in message
...

Another thing that left a bad taste in my mouth. After the flight was
over and we'd taxied back to the hanger he was climbing out of the
plane and realized he didn't have his seatbelt fastened. He laughed
about the fact that he had forgotten to do so.


He'd have failed his private and commercial checkrides, not to mention the
CFI pratical. Your pilot didn't have his head in the cockpit. Seatbelts
are right there on the checklist.

I dunno, I guess it's not a big deal, but I really kind of want someone
who maybe takes it all a
little more seriously.

Even if he -hadn't- gotten you up doing stalls, it's a big deal. Had that
turned into a spin you guys would have been all over the cockpit. Your
problem here isn't you, it was the so-called "instructor" who busted an
important safety regulation and demonstrated poor attention to detail in his
very first flight with you.

-c

gatt wrote:
"Alan Gerber" wrote in message
...
kontiki wrote:
The student does have a level of responsibility
to communicate with the instructor and the instructor has the
responsibility to respond to and accept the student. From
this relationship the learning process takes place.
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with your advice. This was a discovery
flight; they didn't really *have* a true instructor/student relationship
yet.

I think Kontiki's advice is good for students who are underway with an
instructor, but I agree with you in this case.

In this experience, the Discovery Flight was also the instructor's job
interview for this potential client, and he failed. There is not yet a
realistic student-instructor relationship.

This is a good discussion, everybody.


I do totally concur regarding the difference in instructing an
actual student pilot and flying someone on a "discovery flight".
My opining about the importance of the communication aspects of
CFI's and students was in the broader sense for which the seeds
should be planted (by the CFI) on that first introductory flight.

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 07:53:25 -0800, "gatt"
wrote:


"DGS" wrote in message
.. .

Another thing that left a bad taste in my mouth. After the flight was
over and we'd taxied back to the hanger he was climbing out of the
plane and realized he didn't have his seatbelt fastened. He laughed
about the fact that he had forgotten to do so.


He'd have failed his private and commercial checkrides, not to mention the
CFI pratical. Your pilot didn't have his head in the cockpit. Seatbelts
are right there on the checklist.

I dunno, I guess it's not a big deal, but I really kind of want someone
who maybe takes it all a
little more seriously.

Even if he -hadn't- gotten you up doing stalls, it's a big deal. Had that
turned into a spin you guys would have been all over the cockpit. Your
problem here isn't you, it was the so-called "instructor" who busted an
important safety regulation and demonstrated poor attention to detail in his
very first flight with you.

-c


Agreed. What I *should* have done was ask the instructor why he
wasn't using a checklist, however being totally new to real world
piloting I was intimidated and didn't do so. Had he used a checklist,
he would have remembered our belts (and again I will state
emphatically that I know for a fact that no checklist and NO seatbelts
were used). After we were done I should have notified the manager of
the FBO.

At this point I'm obviously looking for a new instructor. I'm torn on
whether I want to go through the bother of reporting this to the FBO.
There are only 2 in my city and I hate to burn a bridge.

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:25:26 -0600, DGS wrote:

I am actually fearful that I had an anxiety attack...actually.

Yup, when he said you would basically be piloting the plane through take
off all the way to landing, I'd bet your subconscious brain heard, "You are
going to fly the airplane and I'm not going to help you."

He should have said, "I'll let you fly from take off to landing, but I'll
always have my hands on the controls."

After the seat belt thing, I'd run away from this guy.

Hey, I hope you'll come back and tell us how it goes the second time.

--
Dallas

"DGS" wrote in message

Your problem here isn't you, it was the so-called "instructor" who busted
an
important safety regulation and demonstrated poor attention to detail in
his
very first flight with you.

Agreed. What I *should* have done was ask the instructor why he
wasn't using a checklist, however being totally new to real world
piloting I was intimidated and didn't do so.

Yeah. On a discovery flight, however, there should be no such expectations
of you whatsoever. The minute you find yourself in a situation like that,
the roles have been reversed. One would expect that from an instructor
doing a BFR for a pilot. "Say...shouldn't you be using a checklist?"

I'm torn on whether I want to go through the bother of reporting this to
the FBO.
There are only 2 in my city and I hate to burn a bridge.

Think of it in terms of how it will help the instructor become a better
pilot. Again, not your responsibility but in the end it might save lives.
An anonymous note to the FBO indicating your experience would probably
result in a pointed memo to the entire staff rather than one guy getting
called to the carpet, although in this case the latter would certainly be
deserved.

I expect your next experience will be much more satisfactory.

-c

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:04:05 -0600, DGS wrote:

At this point I'm obviously looking for a new instructor. I'm torn on
whether I want to go through the bother of reporting this to the FBO.

I'd say no.. the chief pilot is likely aware of this instructor's style
and if it's an ongoing issue, chances are he'll be looking for a new job
soon enough.

If the FBO has several instructors, just call in again and tell whoever
answers the phone that you didn't think the chemistry was right and you'd
like to try again with another instructor. Consider describing what you
would like in a good instructor, FBOs are usually small places and the
person answering the phone could help you match up with someone else.

Why not try the other school first just to see what they are like? But
again, try to describe the type of instructor you'd like.

--
Dallas

You've been given some really great suggestions. The cockpit can be
very intimidating until you "know" it. There are a bunch of guages,
radio's etc. You've got kind of cramped quarters, headphones on,
checklists and an instructor that you don't know. It is alot to deal
with. Your sim experience is great for the basics , but it has
nothing to do with the actual mental stress of being a pilot.

I had 4 instructors before I found the one I liked. That's just me,
others say grin and bear it. I strongly suggest NOT giving up on your
dream. Speak to some other instructors. Let them know exactly what
your situation is. A flight instructor may be a good pilot but a bad
teacher. Usually a good flight instructor has a large following and
well known reputation on the field.

IMHO if you get the right instructor and really learn the material you
will develop the confidence and decision making skills that you will
need to be a safe pilot. You are responding to an unfamiliar
situation with a demanding work load with a perception of potential
danger if you goof. Some time just sitting without the engine running
and getting comfortable with the location of everything, a slow start
up procedure, the flow of the checklist, a smooth gentle take off, a
precisely flown pattern and a good landing with the instructor on the
controls and you shadowing would go a long way to helping you.

Doug