Buying/selling homebuilts

On Feb 11, 7:22*pm, Charles Vincent wrote:
BobR wrote:
You can easily run into the six figures
with your own homebuilt.

These days you are pretty much guaranteed to go to six figures with a
homebuilt, at least if you count your pennies like I do... *;')

Charles

I don't dare count all the pennies, my wife might get hold of the
numbers and realize just how much I have spent. BG Actually, she
has been keeping track of it all from the beginning. I have an
estimate but really didn't care until recently when money became a bit
less abundant.

On Feb 12, 5:50*am, Scott wrote:
And I won't debate that *My take was the poster was implying that he
thought it was cheaper to build rather than buy and on that assumption,
I suggested he check out some older "classics" if cost was the only
criterion

Scott



cavalamb himself wrote:

True, but it won't be an RV-6,- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The relative cost of Build vs Buy will vary greatly depending on the
mission requirements and the amount of time used in the calculation.
In many cases, it might be cheaper to buy for the initial expense but
depending to circumstances the long term costs would be greater when
you consider annual inspections and the costs of buying parts for
production aircraft. Building your own might be more expensive on the
initial price but prove less costly if you intend to keep the plane
for an extended period of time.

BobR wrote:
On Feb 12, 5:50 am, Scott wrote:

And I won't debate that My take was the poster was implying that he
thought it was cheaper to build rather than buy and on that assumption,
I suggested he check out some older "classics" if cost was the only
criterion

Scott



cavalamb himself wrote:


True, but it won't be an RV-6,- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The relative cost of Build vs Buy will vary greatly depending on the
mission requirements and the amount of time used in the calculation.
In many cases, it might be cheaper to buy for the initial expense but
depending to circumstances the long term costs would be greater when
you consider annual inspections and the costs of buying parts for
production aircraft. Building your own might be more expensive on the
initial price but prove less costly if you intend to keep the plane
for an extended period of time.


In the end it always comes back to, :If you want to fly, buy;
if you want to build, build".

Scott wrote:
And I won't debate that My take was the poster was implying that he
thought it was cheaper to build rather than buy and on that assumption,
I suggested he check out some older "classics" if cost was the only
criterion

Scott

The problem with buying a classic (as I understand it) is that I won't
be able to do the repair and maintenance on it. I've seen a bunch of
old ratty Cessna 150s sitting around the air parks that look like they
need a lot of TLC to get flying. If I bought one of those, I'd have to
pay an A&P a fortune to get it in the air.

Tony

"Charles Vincent" wrote in message et...
BobR wrote:
You can easily run into the six figures
with your own homebuilt.


These days you are pretty much guaranteed to go to six figures with a
homebuilt, at least if you count your pennies like I do... ;')

Charles



IMHO, the best bang for the buck: http://bd-4.org/
also: http://www.tvap.com/

"Blueskies" wrote in message
...
"Charles Vincent" wrote in message
et...
BobR wrote:
You can easily run into the six figures
with your own homebuilt.


These days you are pretty much guaranteed to go to six figures with a
homebuilt, at least if you count your pennies like I do... ;')

Charles



IMHO, the best bang for the buck: http://bd-4.org/
also: http://www.tvap.com/


Probably very true. Just remember what a BD4 owner, who had intentionally
spun his, told me long ago:

It will spin. DON'T!

Peter

es330td wrote:


1. Are there people who just build kit/plan planes to sell them?

yes. It doesn't meet the intent of the regs.

2. Does the FAA simply choose to ignore them?

Its difficult to enforce this rule when you are short staffed and have
bigger fish to fry. Choose? not so much. Unable to effectively police?
Probably. You dont rise to their attention, they dont spank you.

3. What responsibilities does the builder have with the plane?

It ends when the transaction is complete. You may hold them liable for
something after the fact, but thats determined in the courts, not in the
regs.

4. As the owner of a homebuilt they didn't build, can the purchaser
work on the plane or does it now become like a 172 that must be
repaired by an A&P guy?

read carefully: ANYONE can work on an experimental amatuer built
airplane. ANYONE. pilot. owner. Joe Bob the Gardner down the street.

Every year, a "condition inspection" must be performed, analagous to an
annual inspection in a certified plane. The condition inspection must be
done by an A&P (doesnt have to be an IA) or the holder of the
Repairman's Certificate for that particular plane/airframe.

In comparison, most maintenance on certified planes must be done by an
A&P (certain preventative maintenance items are excluded from this rule)
and the annual inspection must be done by an IA.

Heres the gotcha: While ANYONE can do the day to day and major
maintenance, John Smith A&P or the original repairman certificate holder
is under no obligation to sign off on a condition inspection for work
they didn't do, or have no reasonable way to validate that any work was
done with proper/up to their standard workmanship. Here's where it pays
to develop a good working relationship with someone qualified to do the
annual condition inspection and go from there.


5. How much can you trust a purchased homebuilt? I know they have to
get an airworthiness inspection to fly but that doesn't mean it was
built well. Is there a certain minimum level of quality a plane must
have to get the certificate?

There is no hard fast line in the sand minimum level. It is subjective
in the eyes of the examiner. And even then its only ready for Phase 1
flight test - solo, VFR day for up to 40 hrs (minimum). The owner is
responsible for moving on from phase 1 operations. If it hasn't shaken
itself apart in 40 hours, the presumption is it wont anytime soon.

Here is where having an experienced inspector on YOUR payroll comes in
handy. Trust is a matter between the builder and the buyer. Shoddy
workmanship where you CAN see it may very well indicate shoddy
workmanship where you CANT see it. Without experience on your side, you
are throwing dice in a crap shoot

Interact with some local EAA technical counselors and flight advisors in
your area. You wont get the requisite experience solely here on usenet.

"Scott" wrote in message
...
And I won't debate that My take was the poster was implying that he
thought it was cheaper to build rather than buy and on that assumption, I
suggested he check out some older "classics" if cost was the only criterion




Or older used homebuilts (to bring us back to the original topic)

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Anthony W" wrote in message
news:d4msj.16$th.10@trnddc05...
Scott wrote:
...
The problem with buying a classic (as I understand it) is that I won't be
able to do the repair and maintenance on it. I've seen a bunch of old
ratty Cessna 150s sitting around the air parks that look like they need a
lot of TLC to get flying. If I bought one of those, I'd have to pay an A&P
a fortune to get it in the air.


Another reason to buy a used homebuilt...

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Scott" wrote
And I won't debate that My take was the poster was implying that
he thought it was cheaper to build rather than buy and on that
assumption, I suggested he check out some older "classics" if cost was
the only criterion

What classics can be worked on by a non A&P owner and could be licensed
under the LSA rules?

Tony