Stalls??

Bob Moore wrote:

Centurion wrote

You can safely (as in not over-stress the airframe) use full control
deflection from the bottom of the green arc (usually Vs) to Vmo. At
Vmo, full elevator deflection will result in the airframe's maximum
certified G load, right before the stall. IOW, max-G and stall occur
simultaneously. Below Vmo, the wing will stall before max-G. At 1G,
the wing stalls at Vs.
I have a CFI, ATPL, aerobatics endorsements, etc,
and several thousand hours too...but all this is basic aeronautical
knowledge that is taught at ab-initio stage.

You're kidding of course....right? You really meant to say Va instead
of Vmo....right? A CFI....yeah, right!

Thank you King Sarcasm. See my reply to Dudley Henriques. It was a typo,
graciously pointed out by Dudley, far less so by you.

(Clipped BAK regurgitation)

James
--
Q. How many ex-Airline Captains does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: Just one. He grasps it firmly and the universe revolves around him.

To answer your basic question, you could not get a PPL without looking out
the window because ALL training is done in visual conditions. There is a
required lick-and-a-promise three hours of flight training (not instrument
training) in controlling the airplane solely by instrument reference which
is intended ONLY to prepare the visual pilot to keep the airplane right-side
up when visual contact with the outside world is lost through inadvertence.
The value of this training can be assessed by reading the all too familiar
reports of VFR pilots flying into instrument meteorological conditions and
killing themselves and passengers...it is among the leading causes of
aviation fatalities.

Bob Gardner

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
wrote in
:

I guess I'm going to have to start (and perhaps finish) my primary
training in order to understand this comment completely.

I understand that being able to see outside helps the brain make a
connection between the behavior of the airplane and what it looks
like. However, couldn't you learn to feel the airplane and how it
behaves only on instruments ever? Could you complete a PPL without
ever looking out the window? At the risk of sounding like a simmer,
why is this "feel" so necessary when training the beginning pilot and
then relearned for an instrument rating? I know I'm making an error
of logic here (otherwise pilot training would be much different), but
what is it exactly?

I have done enough research to understand the difference between VFR,
VMC, IFR, and IMC and who and why you would fly in each one. I would
imagine this is part of training when getting a PPL. So how would a
pilot mix up these two worlds?


Well, one good reason that visual flying is a better way to go if you
are flying visually.... Umm...

Anyhow, flying instruments has, for instance, one aspect that makes it
very different and that is; you are constantly fighting a number of
signals coming from your body. I'm sure you've heard about spatial
disorientation arising from when the signal from your inner ear
conflicts with the info coming from your eyes. This never really
entirely goes away no matter how much intsrument flying you do. ( at
least it hasn't for me)
Contarily-wise, these signals are an absolute asset to a pilot flying
visually. They are working in concert with your eyes.
So the long and short of it is, when you are flying with your eyes
outside, dozens of signals that give you nothing but grief when your IMC
and soaking up a lot of your resources, are now complementing them and
aiding you in controlling the airplane.

Bertie

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 20:46:44 -0500, Dudley Henriques wrote:

Instructors who teach stall "feel" are still out here, but you have to
spend some time finding the right ones.
When you find a CFI who tapes up the ASI and pulls the circuit breaker
on the stall warning horn to teach you to "feel" the airplane...GRAB
THEM, you've found the right one :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

oh my

Can I emasculate them afterwards..or say thanks lol
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 22:26:44 -0500, Dudley Henriques wrote:

I'm one of the lucky ones. I married my best friend
42 years ago and she's still my best friend today. Getting her to say
yes was the luckiest damn thing I ever managed to do in my whole life
and hearing her say it was absolutely number one on the list.

Double down that, @ 15 I met my wife in the late 60's. Total luck.
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

WJRFlyBoy wrote in news:18wndw6seuv9n
:

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 20:46:44 -0500, Dudley Henriques wrote:

Instructors who teach stall "feel" are still out here, but you have to
spend some time finding the right ones.
When you find a CFI who tapes up the ASI and pulls the circuit breaker
on the stall warning horn to teach you to "feel" the airplane...GRAB
THEM, you've found the right one :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

oh my

Can I emasculate them afterwards..or say thanks lol


It's not that uncommon. In fact a couple of our gliders and cubs had a disc
permanently mounted on he panel that could be flipped in front of the ASI.
I didn't use them that much,but the chief instructor ( who had installed
them) hardly ever let the students fly with the ASI uncovered.


Bertie

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 14:43:50 GMT, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

Recently, posted:

On Feb 16, 8:46 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

Instructors who teach stall "feel" are still out here, but you have
to spend some time finding the right ones.
When you find a CFI who tapes up the ASI and pulls the circuit
breaker on the stall warning horn to teach you to "feel" the
airplane...GRAB THEM, you've found the right one :-))

I have hear a few different people on this ng say things like this.
And yet if you fly by feel in an incursion into IMC, it kills (or can
kill) non instrument rated pilots. Am I missing a step here? Do you
have to learn by feel before you can learn by instrument?

In the case of my training, by the time I soloed, use of the instruments
was well understood. I had other "fortunate" experiences before I soloed,
such as having a vacuum pump failure. I didn't even notice it until the AI
was pretty far out of whack with the outside picture. If you're paying
attention to what's going on outside, I don't think it's all that easy to
inadvertently fly into IMC.

You'd be surprised at how quick it can happen.
Most on here have already heard this, but some years back my wife and
I were departing Knoxville TN. (TYS). There had been some on and off
sprinkles, but the ceiling was high and well above the mountains to
the South. Just after rotation the sky opened up and dumped on us. In
the space of a couple seconds the view went from better than 10 to
around 30 to 50 feet out the side and zero ahead.

One beautiful summer day with a clear blue sky as far as I could see,
an area from a bit South of Muskegon MI to Somewhere between Alpena
and Oscoda and a good 50 miles from North to South turned into heavy
thunderstorms in roughly 5minutes.

If you fly much in the way of long flights you are likely to run into
weather that just doesn't behave as you figure it should. Always have
an out.



Neil

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

In article Roger writes:
On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 14:43:50 GMT, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

In the case of my training, by the time I soloed, use of the instruments
was well understood. I had other "fortunate" experiences before I soloed,
such as having a vacuum pump failure. I didn't even notice it until the AI
was pretty far out of whack with the outside picture. If you're paying
attention to what's going on outside, I don't think it's all that easy to
inadvertently fly into IMC.

You'd be surprised at how quick it can happen.
Most on here have already heard this, but some years back my wife and
I were departing Knoxville TN. (TYS). There had been some on and off
sprinkles, but the ceiling was high and well above the mountains to
the South. Just after rotation the sky opened up and dumped on us. In
the space of a couple seconds the view went from better than 10 to
around 30 to 50 feet out the side and zero ahead.

One beautiful summer day with a clear blue sky as far as I could see,
an area from a bit South of Muskegon MI to Somewhere between Alpena
and Oscoda and a good 50 miles from North to South turned into heavy
thunderstorms in roughly 5minutes.

If you fly much in the way of long flights you are likely to run into
weather that just doesn't behave as you figure it should. Always have
an out.

It makes one want to think twice about flying an aircraft without
attitude and heading instruments (or flying without recent practice
using them).

I am fairly certain that that weather did not check to see if you
had an IFR rating or equipment before it dumped on you that day.

Alan

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 06:28:23 -0000, Jim Logajan wrote:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Almost all fears are born of ignorance.

Eh? I thought the line went "Ignorance is bliss," not "Ignornace is fear?"

Starve your fear, feed your life
You'll find that you might
Be completely different all together
And then you'll decide which one you like better
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:22:19 -0800 (PST), Robert M. Gary wrote:

Most of the other CFIs
only go to the first nose drop, not a full stall and when teaching at
the Mooney Pilot Prof. courses you are prohibited from doing full
stalls with students. There are a lot of 10,000+ hour Mooney
instructors that say you simply shouldn't be doing full stalls in
these types of planes.

-Robert, CFII

Insurance have a play in this?
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

Bob Moore wrote:

Centurion wrote

Thank you King Sarcasm. See my reply to Dudley Henriques. It was a
typo, graciously pointed out by Dudley, far less so by you.

NO...a typo occurs when you misspell a word or hit the wrong key
once, you typed Vmo three times. Hardly a typo. Then to top it off,
you proceed to tell everyone that what you say is correct because
"I am a flight instructor.....".

Without a "real" name, you get very little respect from me.

Whatever; you washed up has-been.

FWIW, I'm no longer an instructor as I decided not long after heading down
that path that Instructing wasn't my cup of tea. I have, however studied
fluid dynamics at University (and graduated) so I can guarantee I know more
about the subject of stalling than you. Big deal, so I haven't explained
V-speeds in a while...doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

As for my name, my first name is below just above my sig. (see it down
there?) and my surname can be extrapolated from the headers. I assume you
know what an NNTP header is? After all, you seem to know everything to me.
So how about you live in your deluded state in your little ivory tower a
little longer...when you want to pull your head out your arse, feel free to
visit the real world.

BTW, it's self-important arse-holes like you that make me glad I'm no
longer "in" the airline industry.

James
--
Ansett Airlines (retired) ...couldn't be arsed with my resume.
Your goose is cooked.
(Your current chick is burned up too!)