LibHawk Down

In article ,
says...

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.piloting gatt wrote:

wrote in message
...
In rec.aviation.piloting gatt wrote:

How do you know they weren't?

How do we know they were?

I don't as a fact, but knowing how the military works, I highly doubt
any outsiders would have been told about it until the event was over.

I figured they might as likely have press a la Geraldo Rivera dogging
them
the whole way.

I doubt they could get cell service in the mountains of Afghanistan and
that the troops would let them make such a call if one of the party was
that stupid.


Many of the press have satphones these days.

And would eat said phone if they attempted to use it in a situation like
this.

In article ,
says...
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:39:41 -0800, "gatt"
wrote in :

"WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.




Follow up: http://www.wtop.com/?nid=116&sid=1349495

No one was injured, Kerry said. The senators and their delegation
returned to Bagram Air Base in a motor convoy, and left for Turkey.
They had been visiting some foward firebases in Afghanistan before the
emergency landing.

"The weather closed in on us," Kerry said. "It went pretty blind,
pretty fast and we were around some pretty dangerous ridges. So the
pilot exercised his judgment that we were better off putting down
there, and we all agreed."

Kerry actually thinks he had a choice ?
He is dumber than I thought.



Kerry said the lawmakers were lucky because there happened to be a
road nearby.

"We sat up there and traded stories," Kerry joked. "We were going to
send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have
to do it."

Typical.




Added Kerry: "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."

"We were fine," said Kerry. "The pilots were outstanding. The military
handled it superbly ... It was as clean and as smooth as any landing
anywhere."

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:45:04 GMT, wrote:

In rec.aviation.piloting Mr.Smartypants wrote:
On Feb 21, 1:39?pm, "gatt" wrote:
?"WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
Sens. John Kerry, Joseph Biden and Chuck Hagel were aboard the aircraft.,
according to Jon Summers, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
The lawmakers are on a trip this week that includes stops in India, Turkey
and Pakistan.

Kerry and Biden are Democrats from Massachusetts and Delaware, respectively,
and the Republican Hagel is from Nebraska. "

WTF?! ?Is this something that needs to be reported before they're secured
and recovered?

-c

The "emergency" landing was probably at an alternate airport/base.

You can bet those three tit-suckers wouldn't be anywhere near any
actual danger.

They landed in a field in the mountains because of a snow storm and
were transported the rest of the way by ground vehicles.

While waiting for pickup, the troops formed a perimeter and a fighter
flew air cover as would be expected for such a situation.

************************************************** *****************

Please explain to me how a fighter could fly air cover in Wx so bad
that a chopper had to land?

Also Fighters fly in at lest a element not singly.

Sounds like some press had a dead line to make and not time to get
facts straight.

Or maybe the fighter was a sim mission, eh ! Mx?


Big John

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:40:34 -0500, Bob Noel
wrote:

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

"The weather closed in on us," Kerry said. "It went pretty blind,
pretty fast and we were around some pretty dangerous ridges. So the
pilot exercised his judgment that we were better off putting down
there, and we all agreed."

I hope Kerry, or anyone else, doesn't think the pilot needed their
blessing to exercise his authority as PIC.


************************************************** *****

I guess you haven't had any experience hauling Congressmen around in
Military aurcraft? Especially out in the boon docks?


Big John

Big John wrote:
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:45:04 GMT, wrote:

In rec.aviation.piloting Mr.Smartypants wrote:
On Feb 21, 1:39?pm, "gatt" wrote:
?"WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
Sens. John Kerry, Joseph Biden and Chuck Hagel were aboard the aircraft.,
according to Jon Summers, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
The lawmakers are on a trip this week that includes stops in India, Turkey
and Pakistan.

Kerry and Biden are Democrats from Massachusetts and Delaware, respectively,
and the Republican Hagel is from Nebraska. "

WTF?! ?Is this something that needs to be reported before they're secured
and recovered?

-c

The "emergency" landing was probably at an alternate airport/base.

You can bet those three tit-suckers wouldn't be anywhere near any
actual danger.

They landed in a field in the mountains because of a snow storm and
were transported the rest of the way by ground vehicles.

While waiting for pickup, the troops formed a perimeter and a fighter
flew air cover as would be expected for such a situation.

************************************************** *****************

Please explain to me how a fighter could fly air cover in Wx so bad
that a chopper had to land?

Are you asking me or the Associated Press?

I would guess because loaded helicopters are more altitude limited than
F-16's and they were in the mountains.

Also Fighters fly in at lest a element not singly.

Then I guess you need to fire off an indignant letter to AP press
writer Andrew Miga who wrote the AP story and set him straight.

Either that, or an indignant letter to John Kerry who provided the
information to AP in a telephone interview.

Sounds like some press had a dead line to make and not time to get
facts straight.

Or maybe since they were close to Bagram Air Base, no one felt the need
for a bunch of fighters in the air.

Or maybe Kerry didn't know how may F-16's were in the air; write to
him and grill him thoroughly until you get an answer.

Or maybe the fighter was a sim mission, eh ! Mx?

Bite me.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:25:03 GMT, wrote:

Big John wrote:
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:45:04 GMT, wrote:

In rec.aviation.piloting Mr.Smartypants wrote:
On Feb 21, 1:39?pm, "gatt" wrote:
?"WASHINGTON (AP) - A helicopter carrying three senior U.S. senators has
made an emergency landing in Afghanistan.
Sens. John Kerry, Joseph Biden and Chuck Hagel were aboard the aircraft.,
according to Jon Summers, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
The lawmakers are on a trip this week that includes stops in India, Turkey
and Pakistan.

Kerry and Biden are Democrats from Massachusetts and Delaware, respectively,
and the Republican Hagel is from Nebraska. "

WTF?! ?Is this something that needs to be reported before they're secured
and recovered?

-c

The "emergency" landing was probably at an alternate airport/base.

You can bet those three tit-suckers wouldn't be anywhere near any
actual danger.

They landed in a field in the mountains because of a snow storm and
were transported the rest of the way by ground vehicles.

While waiting for pickup, the troops formed a perimeter and a fighter
flew air cover as would be expected for such a situation.

************************************************** *****************

Please explain to me how a fighter could fly air cover in Wx so bad
that a chopper had to land?

Are you asking me or the Associated Press?

I would guess because loaded helicopters are more altitude limited than
F-16's and they were in the mountains.

Also Fighters fly in at lest a element not singly.

Then I guess you need to fire off an indignant letter to AP press
writer Andrew Miga who wrote the AP story and set him straight.

Either that, or an indignant letter to John Kerry who provided the
information to AP in a telephone interview.

Sounds like some press had a dead line to make and not time to get
facts straight.

Or maybe since they were close to Bagram Air Base, no one felt the need
for a bunch of fighters in the air.

Or maybe Kerry didn't know how may F-16's were in the air; write to
him and grill him thoroughly until you get an answer.

Or maybe the fighter was a sim mission, eh ! Mx?

Bite me.


************************************************** *********

Quoting you.

"While waiting for pickup, the troops formed a perimeter and a fighter
flew air cover as would be expected for such a situation".

Unquote.

Since you seemed to know it all (quote) "as would be expected for
such a situation" (unquote) I simply asked some technical questions
which I guess you don't have the answers to???? so you now want to
pass the buck.

If you are going to put your name to patently erroneous data, you
should be prepared to qualify the data or say this is what was
reported and by whom. We would then know you were not setting yourself
up as a expert on what happened thousands of miles away.

More questions, since you believe everything in the media or from the
mouths of politicians. What kind of a Chopper was it and how many
'troops' were aboard to form a perimeter?

Were there two choppers, one with the VIP's and one with a squad or so
of troops for security.

This is how I would have scheduled the mission. It would have given
100% back up of equipment and safety.

Why should I stoop so low to bite you? I don't suffer or bite fools.


Big John

In article ,
Big John wrote:

I hope Kerry, or anyone else, doesn't think the pilot needed their
blessing to exercise his authority as PIC.


************************************************** *****

I guess you haven't had any experience hauling Congressmen around in
Military aurcraft? Especially out in the boon docks?

True. When first reading about this event, I couldn't help thinking
about the Ron Brown "accident". Fortunately, the pilot didn't repeat
that mistake.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:49:40 -0500, Bob Noel
wrote:

In article ,
Big John wrote:

I hope Kerry, or anyone else, doesn't think the pilot needed their
blessing to exercise his authority as PIC.


************************************************** *****

I guess you haven't had any experience hauling Congressmen around in
Military aurcraft? Especially out in the boon docks?

True. When first reading about this event, I couldn't help thinking
about the Ron Brown "accident". Fortunately, the pilot didn't repeat
that mistake.


************************************************** *

Bob

Agree. We have been losing about one bird a year in Afghanistan due
to Wx.

Mickey Leland

Congressman Leland was on a boon doggle in Africa and was scheduled to
fly on a local aircraft to a isolated refuge camp in Ethiopia during a
period of marginal Wx.

The pilot was a local and pointed out that the flight should not be
attempted. An initial report of accident by a local reporter stated
that Leland put pressure on Pilot to attempt flight against the pilots
better judgement. Of course Wx was worse than forecast and bird flew
into a cloud with a rock inside and crashed and Leland and all 15
aboard died.

I submitted a FOI to get that bit of data on pressure and only thing
that was released was the Embassy report of accident and death of
Leland and statement that accident investigation would be run by
Ethiopia not USA so congressional pressure has been hidden again in
this case. With what we give Ethiopia no way would they besmirch
Leland.


I have also heard from congressman "we vote you (Air Force) millions
of dollars for your operations and equipment and you can't fly if
there is a cloud in the sky".

Also complaints if there was not booze and gourmet food aboard. No box
lunches for them.


Big John

Big John wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:25:03 GMT, wrote:


Quoting you.

"While waiting for pickup, the troops formed a perimeter and a fighter
flew air cover as would be expected for such a situation".

Unquote.

Since you seemed to know it all (quote) "as would be expected for
such a situation" (unquote) I simply asked some technical questions
which I guess you don't have the answers to???? so you now want to
pass the buck.

The first part was directly paraphrased from the AP article.

The second part was based on 30 years in the Army.

What would you expect the troops to do stranded in hostile territory
with a bunch of civilians and VIP's, curl up in The fetal position and sob?

If you are going to put your name to patently erroneous data, you
should be prepared to qualify the data or say this is what was
reported and by whom. We would then know you were not setting yourself
up as a expert on what happened thousands of miles away.

You could always read the AP article yourself, then get back to me
on that snide "patently erroneous data" remark.

More questions, since you believe everything in the media or from the
mouths of politicians. What kind of a Chopper was it and how many
'troops' were aboard to form a perimeter?

The article didn't say.

And you can stuff that "since you believe everything in the media or from
the mouths of politicians" remark up your ass.

Were there two choppers, one with the VIP's and one with a squad or so
of troops for security.

According to the article, which you obviously have still failed to read,
there were at least two; one with the VIP's and one with the VIP
staff.


This is how I would have scheduled the mission. It would have given
100% back up of equipment and safety.

It is a good thing you weren't in charge.

Command requires thinking, not emotional outbursts based on wild ass
supposition, such as I didn't read the AP report.



--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:25:04 GMT, wrote in
:

You could always read the AP article yourself,

Are you able to provide a link to the article to which you refer?