The Angry White Man

On Feb 26, 5:19 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Used to be an Air Force base. Across the river is Capital City -- much
more GA friendly.

Wasn't one in my time so it must have been long ago. I do recall seeing a
coupel of F7Fs in the hangar there for some reason. I don't remember there
even being another airport. We would have needed the ils into the place,
though.

Bertie

I think the base was pretty active in that sissy World War 2. In the
last 30 years it has hosted an EC-130 ANG unit -- 193rd Special Ops
group. I spent a couple of years there.

Dan

" wrote in
:

On Feb 26, 5:19 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Used to be an Air Force base. Across the river is Capital City --
much more GA friendly.

Wasn't one in my time so it must have been long ago. I do recall
seeing a coupel of F7Fs in the hangar there for some reason. I don't
remember there even being another airport. We would have needed the
ils into the place, though.

Bertie

I think the base was pretty active in that sissy World War 2. In the
last 30 years it has hosted an EC-130 ANG unit -- 193rd Special Ops
group. I spent a couple of years there.


OK, I don't remember seeing them there, but that's jut the memory! I do
remember th eapproach at Altoona, though. Or maybe it was Johnstown. You
basically flew down the side of a hill much of the way.

On Feb 26, 6:19 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

OK, I don't remember seeing them there, but that's jut the memory! I do
remember th eapproach at Altoona, though. Or maybe it was Johnstown. You
basically flew down the side of a hill much of the way.

Probably Johnstown (though Altoona has the same topogrpahy -- but I
haven't reason to fly to Altoona yet).

I think the Rwy 5 approach parallels the ridge.

We just had the local DE go down in a Bonanza last Thursday night into
KCBE (Cumberland, MD). No NTSB prelim yet, but the educated guess is
ice.

The Cumberland airport sits between a very steep, tall ridge to the
west and some lower to the east. Fly it in daytime and you'll think
twice about Circle to land at night.

It's easy to second guess but man I hope I stay scared long enough to
avoid LIFR and Ice into a place like CBE for a long, long time.

Dan

" wrote in news:cd31ab03-0ade-4db5-
:

On Feb 26, 6:19 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

OK, I don't remember seeing them there, but that's jut the memory! I do
remember th eapproach at Altoona, though. Or maybe it was Johnstown. You
basically flew down the side of a hill much of the way.

Probably Johnstown (though Altoona has the same topogrpahy -- but I
haven't reason to fly to Altoona yet).

I think the Rwy 5 approach parallels the ridge.

We just had the local DE go down in a Bonanza last Thursday night into
KCBE (Cumberland, MD). No NTSB prelim yet, but the educated guess is
ice.

The Cumberland airport sits between a very steep, tall ridge to the
west and some lower to the east. Fly it in daytime and you'll think
twice about Circle to land at night.

It's easy to second guess but man I hope I stay scared long enough to
avoid LIFR and Ice into a place like CBE for a long, long time.

Yeah, ice is a big problem in that region. I remember it was common and was
frequently from the suface to well above my ceiling, anyway. In the midwest
it always seemed more stratified, so it was always possible to be somewhere
the ice wasn't. Not so in the hills. I think it was probably Altoona I'm
thinking of with the approach. A southerly runway, anyway.. I don't thnk I
was ever grounded by the weather, which seems remarkable to me now.


Bertie

On Feb 26, 6:35 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Yeah, ice is a big problem in that region. I remember it was common and was
frequently from the suface to well above my ceiling, anyway. In the midwest
it always seemed more stratified, so it was always possible to be somewhere
the ice wasn't. Not so in the hills. I think it was probably Altoona I'm
thinking of with the approach. A southerly runway, anyway.. I don't thnk I
was ever grounded by the weather, which seems remarkable to me now.

Bertie

That is amazing! You must have been full deice, G1000, turbine -- the
works.

This winter has been non-stop ice -- warm enough and wet enough to
keep it constantly above and throughout the altitudes we fly. The
uplift created by the ridges wreaks more havoc than we realize.

The airliners are far above so there's no compelling interest to study
the phenomenon, but it is definitely unique.

Dan

" wrote in
:

On Feb 26, 6:35 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Yeah, ice is a big problem in that region. I remember it was common
and was frequently from the suface to well above my ceiling, anyway.
In the midwest it always seemed more stratified, so it was always
possible to be somewhere the ice wasn't. Not so in the hills. I think
it was probably Altoona I'm thinking of with the approach. A
southerly runway, anyway.. I don't thnk I was ever grounded by the
weather, which seems remarkable to me now.

Bertie

That is amazing! You must have been full deice, G1000, turbine -- the
works.

G1000? What's that? It was a stock 310 but mostly I flew a Twin Beech
around that area. We had boots and electric props on the 310 and boots
and alchohol props and usually alky windscreens on the 18s.

This winter has been non-stop ice -- warm enough and wet enough to
keep it constantly above and throughout the altitudes we fly. The
uplift created by the ridges wreaks more havoc than we realize.

The airliners are far above so there's no compelling interest to study
the phenomenon, but it is definitely unique.

Yeah, I remember it well. I never got into any real trouble with ice,
but my boss when I worked in MI did once. He just made it into some
place in Ohio. I did get some in Michigan that caused an engine to
cough, but I managed to clear it. I had also got a lot on the bottom of
the wing holding. I went along with a guy in a 310 once and we got a lot
on the tip tanks which was causing us a lot of grief, but we were never
in the situation where we couldn't hold altitude.
OTOH, I have come down in singles covered with ice more than once!

Bertie

On Feb 26, 7:44 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

G1000? What's that? It was a stock 310 but mostly I flew a Twin Beech
around that area. We had boots and electric props on the 310 and boots
and alchohol props and usually alky windscreens on the 18s.

Not many Bonanza's with even that level of deice on board.

Yeah, I remember it well. I never got into any real trouble with ice,
but my boss when I worked in MI did once. He just made it into some
place in Ohio. I did get some in Michigan that caused an engine to
cough, but I managed to clear it. I had also got a lot on the bottom of
the wing holding. I went along with a guy in a 310 once and we got a lot
on the tip tanks which was causing us a lot of grief, but we were never
in the situation where we couldn't hold altitude.
OTOH, I have come down in singles covered with ice more than once!

Bertie

I've been chicken so far this winter. But they're not my airplanes.


Dan

" wrote in news:a8c90f28-9a1a-4a7a-
:

On Feb 26, 7:44 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

G1000? What's that? It was a stock 310 but mostly I flew a Twin Beech
around that area. We had boots and electric props on the 310 and boots
and alchohol props and usually alky windscreens on the 18s.

Not many Bonanza's with even that level of deice on board.

Yeah, I remember it well. I never got into any real trouble with ice,
but my boss when I worked in MI did once. He just made it into some
place in Ohio. I did get some in Michigan that caused an engine to
cough, but I managed to clear it. I had also got a lot on the bottom of
the wing holding. I went along with a guy in a 310 once and we got a lot
on the tip tanks which was causing us a lot of grief, but we were never
in the situation where we couldn't hold altitude.
OTOH, I have come down in singles covered with ice more than once!

Bertie

I've been chicken so far this winter. But they're not my airplanes.


Nothing chicken about staying out of ice if you have no de-ice. I should
explain about the icing in singles thing. I was only ever in ice in singles
where there was relatively warm air down low. It comes off quick whenyou
pass the freezing level. You would want a freezing level a good 3 or 4
thousand above the terrain and even then it's not a good idea. I did some
ferrying years ago and the freezing level over the ocean is alwyas at a
reasonable level even in winter. So if you got some ice you went down and
if it wasn't too thick it would come off almost instantly once the OAT was
above freezing. You wouldn't have that luxury in the appalachians, of
course.

Bertie

On Feb 26, 9:18 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
" wrote in news:a8c90f28-9a1a-4a7a-
:



On Feb 26, 7:44 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

G1000? What's that? It was a stock 310 but mostly I flew a Twin Beech
around that area. We had boots and electric props on the 310 and boots
and alchohol props and usually alky windscreens on the 18s.

Not many Bonanza's with even that level of deice on board.

Yeah, I remember it well. I never got into any real trouble with ice,
but my boss when I worked in MI did once. He just made it into some
place in Ohio. I did get some in Michigan that caused an engine to
cough, but I managed to clear it. I had also got a lot on the bottom of
the wing holding. I went along with a guy in a 310 once and we got a lot
on the tip tanks which was causing us a lot of grief, but we were never
in the situation where we couldn't hold altitude.
OTOH, I have come down in singles covered with ice more than once!

Bertie

I've been chicken so far this winter. But they're not my airplanes.

Nothing chicken about staying out of ice if you have no de-ice. I should
explain about the icing in singles thing. I was only ever in ice in singles
where there was relatively warm air down low. It comes off quick whenyou
pass the freezing level. You would want a freezing level a good 3 or 4
thousand above the terrain and even then it's not a good idea. I did some
ferrying years ago and the freezing level over the ocean is alwyas at a
reasonable level even in winter. So if you got some ice you went down and
if it wasn't too thick it would come off almost instantly once the OAT was
above freezing. You wouldn't have that luxury in the appalachians, of
course.

Bertie

True.. there's no where I need to be that bad. Buddy Holly and the Big
Bopper proved that Bonanza's and winter don't mix very well.

I'm guessing with the slick airframe the effects of ice are probably
more damaging then to\ something like a 182?

" wrote in
:

On Feb 26, 9:18 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
" wrote in
news:a8c90f28-9a1a-4a7a-
:



On Feb 26, 7:44 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

G1000? What's that? It was a stock 310 but mostly I flew a Twin
Beech around that area. We had boots and electric props on the 310
and boots and alchohol props and usually alky windscreens on the
18s.

Not many Bonanza's with even that level of deice on board.

Yeah, I remember it well. I never got into any real trouble with
ice, but my boss when I worked in MI did once. He just made it
into some place in Ohio. I did get some in Michigan that caused an
engine to cough, but I managed to clear it. I had also got a lot
on the bottom of the wing holding. I went along with a guy in a
310 once and we got a lot on the tip tanks which was causing us a
lot of grief, but we were never in the situation where we couldn't
hold altitude. OTOH, I have come down in singles covered with ice
more than once!

Bertie

I've been chicken so far this winter. But they're not my airplanes.

Nothing chicken about staying out of ice if you have no de-ice. I
should explain about the icing in singles thing. I was only ever in
ice in singles where there was relatively warm air down low. It comes
off quick whenyou pass the freezing level. You would want a freezing
level a good 3 or 4 thousand above the terrain and even then it's not
a good idea. I did some ferrying years ago and the freezing level
over the ocean is alwyas at a reasonable level even in winter. So if
you got some ice you went down and if it wasn't too thick it would
come off almost instantly once the OAT was above freezing. You
wouldn't have that luxury in the appalachians, of course.

Bertie

True.. there's no where I need to be that bad. Buddy Holly and the Big
Bopper proved that Bonanza's and winter don't mix very well.

I'm guessing with the slick airframe the effects of ice are probably
more damaging then to\ something like a 182?



I wouldn't think there's much difference. I've had a few airplanes in
ice, but not a Bonanaza. It's hard to quantify since each accretion is
unique. I've been in a 172 in fairly bad ice, IMC and completely lost my
ability to hold alitutde in just a few seconds. I was fairly high. 9,000
maybe? it was pretty warm below and I told ATC I needed descent and
needed it now. they said "we'l have it for you shortly", and I had to
reply that it didn't matter, I was coming down anyway at that stage.
I've flown Mooneys in ice and they seem to be better at just plain not
picking it up than most airplanes. Again, hard to quantify, I could just
possibly have been lucky with the conditions. Cessna singles seem to
suffer worst with is. Struts, long gear legs and what not, I guess. It's
a complete non-event in jets, though. Most types rarely even get
airframe icing and even if they do the hot wings blos it off quickly.
The engines are more of a worry, but the anti-ice on them works well.

Bertie