ATC Phraseology

"Bill Watson" wrote in message
...
I'm all for precision and brevity. The Citation pilot is always entitled
to clarification but he/she was probably being a jerk here. Not only are
04 40 very different numbers, they are very different wind speeds, you
have to have your head up your ass not to have already envisioned which
number would be correct at the airport you are getting ready to land at.
ATIS generally helps too.


Might that have been an appropriate ATC comeback?

"Please check ATIS on XXX.XXX and confirm you have information Asshat."
(Okay, probably not the last bit...)

-c

Bill Watson wrote:
I'm all for precision and brevity. The Citation pilot is always
entitled to clarification but he/she was probably being a jerk here.

I don't get that at all. Radio is not perfect. It's quite possible that
the Citation pilot heard "winds 150 at *static* 4. I would probably ask the
same question he did. Not to be pedantic, but to indicate to ATC exactly
what part of the transmission I thought I missed.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

Perhaps the Citation guy simply thought it might be "one four";
hearing only "four" he thought he missed the first digit and wanted to
confirm. No big deal.

"LD" == Larry Dighera writes:

LD I heard the following exchange this morning: ABC-Tower:
LD "Citation-XXX, ABC-Tower."

LD Citation-XXX: "ABC-Tower, Citation-XXX; say current wind."

LD ABC-Tower: "Citation-XXX, ABC-Tower, wind 150 at 4."

LD Citation-XXX: "ABC-Tower, Citation-XXX; is that wind
LD *ZERO* 4?"

LD silence

LD Citation-XXX: "ABC-Tower, Citation-XXX; confirm wind
LD *ZERO* 4."

LD ABC-Tower: "Citation-XXX, ABC-Tower; that's affirmative."


LD Was the Citation pilot's pedantic request appropriate? Must
LD controllers prepend a "zero" to single-digit wind speeds?



--
I spent thirty-three years in the marines, most of my time being a
high-class muscle man for big business, for Wall Street and the
bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism.
~ General Smedley Butler, Marine

On Mar 13, 4:43*pm, Bob Fry wrote:

Perhaps the Citation guy simply thought it might be "one four";
hearing only "four" he thought he missed the first digit and wanted to
confirm. *No big deal.


Perhaps, but that would mean the controller paused unnecessarily while
issuing the winds. There shouldn't be room for a "one" between "at"
and "four".

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:57:03 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:
Was the Citation pilot's pedantic request appropriate? Must
controllers prepend a "zero" to single-digit wind speeds?


I'd say both were appropriate. The AC asked; the controller answered; the AC
wasn't sure whether he heard "four" or "forty" (although it should have been
painfully obvious), and so the controller clarified his original answer.


I agree with you about the appropriateness of querying the controller
if there is any question, but in this case, if you had heard the
rather flip pilot and resignation of the controller, it would be
pretty apparent that his question wasn't about a misunderstanding.
This is borne out somewhat by the fact that the controller failed to
respond to the pilot's initial question.

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:13:46 -0500, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .

I heard the following exchange this morning:


ABC-Tower: "Citation-XXX, ABC-Tower."

Citation-XXX: "ABC-Tower, Citation-XXX; say current wind."

ABC-Tower: "Citation-XXX, ABC-Tower, wind 150 at 4."

Citation-XXX: "ABC-Tower, Citation-XXX; is that wind *ZERO* 4?"

silence

Citation-XXX: "ABC-Tower, Citation-XXX; confirm wind *ZERO* 4."

ABC-Tower: "Citation-XXX, ABC-Tower; that's affirmative."


Was the Citation pilot's pedantic request appropriate?


No.



Must controllers prepend a "zero" to single-digit wind speeds?


No.


Thanks for the information.

Have you ever run across this sort of pilot in your years of
experience?

In article
,
says...


Was the Citation pilot's pedantic request appropriate? *Must
controllers prepend a "zero" to single-digit wind speeds?


It's possible the Citation pilot was not being pedantic, but simply
wanted to check. Contributors here are assuming that the "04" is to
distinguish it from "40" - but that's not the only possibility. The
Citation pilot could also be checking that there was not some other
vocable he didn't quite get - like "one-four". . .

The OP didn't tell us what the overall "tone" of the exchange was -
could be that the Cessna pilot was being a prick - but it could just as
well be he wasn't sure if there was a "one" in there . . .

Larry Dighera wrote:
I agree with you about the appropriateness of querying the controller
if there is any question, but in this case, if you had heard the
rather flip pilot and resignation of the controller, it would be
pretty apparent that his question wasn't about a misunderstanding.
This is borne out somewhat by the fact that the controller failed to
respond to the pilot's initial question.


You're right that I didn't hear the tone used by the pilot; I'll take your word
for it he was just acting like a prick. God knows there's enough of them out
there.

I remember sitting in a hold with a bunch of other aircraft all waiting their
turn for a shot at one of the ILS approaches to Charlotte. There were
thunderboomers EVERYWHERE. Everybody wanted down ASAP. It was getting pretty
tense.

Anyway, there was this one USAir jet that was cleared for the approach who
apparently had been broken off from a previous approach. A whiny voice asked"
Can I assume we'll actually be allowed to complete this approach?"

The next sound heard over the airways was "BITCH, BITCH, BITCH!"

When the controller answered the guy you could hear people in the background
laughing. The fearless aviator had nothing more to say.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On 2008-03-13, Larry Dighera wrote:
Was the Citation pilot's pedantic request appropriate? Must
controllers prepend a "zero" to single-digit wind speeds?

We don't know what the Citation pilot heard, for all we know he heard
"Wind 150 at 4squeeecrackclecclick", and just wanted a clarification.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:57:03 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote:

Larry Dighera wrote:
Was the Citation pilot's pedantic request appropriate? Must
controllers prepend a "zero" to single-digit wind speeds?

I'd say both were appropriate. The AC asked; the controller answered; the AC
wasn't sure whether he heard "four" or "forty" (although it should have been
painfully obvious), and so the controller clarified his original answer.


I agree with you about the appropriateness of querying the controller
if there is any question, but in this case, if you had heard the
rather flip pilot and resignation of the controller, it would be
pretty apparent that his question wasn't about a misunderstanding.
This is borne out somewhat by the fact that the controller failed to
respond to the pilot's initial question.

So now you have graduated from netkop to atccop.

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