ping Dan Thomas/weird crashes.

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in
:

On Mar 30, 9:04 am, wrote:
On Mar 29, 5:37 pm, wrote:



On Mar 29, 3:22 pm, " wrote:

On Mar 29, 1:03 am, "Private" wrote:

Piper Malibu down east of Edmonton 5 sob

FYI

http://news.google.ca/nwshp?hl=en&ta...577933&topic=h

http://discussions.flightaware.com/v...?p=47890#47890


http://www.aviation.ca/component/opt...rd/Itemid,306/
func...

Condolences to family & friends.

The pic that is posted on the Flightaware site is interesting. Is
shows an almost complete cockpit with very little damage. Too bad
these guys couldn't have hit a 20 foot deep pile of fluffy powder
snow. They might have survived...

Godspeed to all involved..

Ben

On the news a few minutes ago, the TSB guys indicated that it
had
been an inflight breakup. That can be caused by several factors,
including spiralling out of control, severe turbulence, or some
pre- existing flaw leading to structural failure. It will take the
investigators some time to figure it out, and even then they're
sometimes not sure. I won't speculate further, but will say that
inflight structural failure is one of the things that scares me
most; the other is a midair collision. I pay a lot of attention to
the structural inspections of our aircraft, and have my eyeballs
all over the place when VFR.
Deep snow wouldn't help much if it was an inflight breakup.
Most
frequent failures involve the tail, and an airplane will stick its
nose straight down if the stab departs.

Dan

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/natio...9ce7fefa-920d-
4.
..

Thanks Dan, (tears aside).
"Dean Braithwaite, chief flight instructor at the Edmonton Flying
Club"
sounds good in that ref.
We've recently discussed the importance of the Artificial
Horizon in this group,

Maybe the pilot ascended above 12500, that can **** up
judgement, went spiral dive (blam) and blamed the AH,
for judgement error. The debris field indicates an aircraft
structural anomally at high altitude.

My GUESS is he was trying to ascend above the weather,
did a stall in lowered air density, converted to a spiral dive,
that shattered the a/c in a few hundred feet at fairly high
altitude.
In a spiral dive the a/c is using gravity to accelerate, it's
like jumping off a building and it comes on fast.

Every pilot must know when he's in a spiral dive and
how to correct it.
Hard input will shatter the a/c, especially if IAS is near
red line, which happens quickly, so be gentle.

In my experience, gentle application of elevator with
reverse aileron is ok. However, jerking the elevator
can snug the turn and exceed the g-rating, specially
if the airlerons are used inappropriately.
I'd like to hear an expert opinion.

Here's mine. You are a liar and an idiot.


Bertie

Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 30, 9:04 am, wrote:
On Mar 29, 5:37 pm, wrote:



On Mar 29, 3:22 pm, " wrote:
On Mar 29, 1:03 am, "Private" wrote:
Piper Malibu down east of Edmonton 5 sob
FYI
http://news.google.ca/nwshp?hl=en&ta...577933&topic=h
http://discussions.flightaware.com/v...?p=47890#47890
http://www.aviation.ca/component/opt...temid,306/func...
Condolences to family & friends.
The pic that is posted on the Flightaware site is interesting. Is
shows an almost complete cockpit with very little damage. Too bad
these guys couldn't have hit a 20 foot deep pile of fluffy powder
snow. They might have survived...
Godspeed to all involved..
Ben
On the news a few minutes ago, the TSB guys indicated that it had
been an inflight breakup. That can be caused by several factors,
including spiralling out of control, severe turbulence, or some pre-
existing flaw leading to structural failure. It will take the
investigators some time to figure it out, and even then they're
sometimes not sure. I won't speculate further, but will say that
inflight structural failure is one of the things that scares me most;
the other is a midair collision. I pay a lot of attention to the
structural inspections of our aircraft, and have my eyeballs all over
the place when VFR.
Deep snow wouldn't help much if it was an inflight breakup. Most
frequent failures involve the tail, and an airplane will stick its
nose straight down if the stab departs.
Dan
http://www.canada.com/globaltv/natio...ce7fefa-920d-4...

Thanks Dan, (tears aside).
"Dean Braithwaite, chief flight instructor at the Edmonton Flying
Club"
sounds good in that ref.
We've recently discussed the importance of the Artificial
Horizon in this group,

Maybe the pilot ascended above 12500, that can **** up
judgement, went spiral dive (blam) and blamed the AH,
for judgement error. The debris field indicates an aircraft
structural anomally at high altitude.

My GUESS is he was trying to ascend above the weather,
did a stall in lowered air density, converted to a spiral dive,
that shattered the a/c in a few hundred feet at fairly high
altitude.
In a spiral dive the a/c is using gravity to accelerate, it's
like jumping off a building and it comes on fast.

Every pilot must know when he's in a spiral dive and
how to correct it.
Hard input will shatter the a/c, especially if IAS is near
red line, which happens quickly, so be gentle.

In my experience, gentle application of elevator with
reverse aileron is ok. However, jerking the elevator
can snug the turn and exceed the g-rating, specially
if the airlerons are used inappropriately.
I'd like to hear an expert opinion.

Me, too, as yours certainly is far from expert.

On Mar 30, 5:14 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:

Every pilot must know when he's in a spiral dive and
how to correct it.
Hard input will shatter the a/c, especially if IAS is near
red line, which happens quickly, so be gentle.

In my experience, gentle application of elevator with
reverse aileron is ok. However, jerking the elevator
can snug the turn and exceed the g-rating, specially
if the airlerons are used inappropriately.
I'd like to hear an expert opinion.
Ken

The private pilot student is taught to recognize the spiral, cut
the power, level the wings, and ease out of the dive. In that exact
order. Anything less is cause for failure of the exercise on the
flight test. It's the failure to recognize the spiral that often gets
the VFR-only pilot after he gets into IMC. Flight is coordinated and
he doesn't feel anything. He isn't trained to trust, yet cross-check,
all the instruments. He trusts his sense of balance, which tells him
big lies when his eyes have nothing to look at outside.
Some slippery airplanes will pull up hard on their own when the
wings are levelled. The stability of the aircraft causes the nose to
rise when airspeed rises, and so, if the speed is high enough, when
the turn is stopped by levelling the wings the nose will come up on
its own, sometimes hard enough to cause structural damage or failure.
Many of these slippery sorts will experience failure of the
horizontal stabilizer first. The airplane then flops over onto its
back and the wings fail downward due to the negative G loading. The
210 and Bonanza were famous for that sort of thing.

Dan

On Mar 30, 7:07 pm, wrote:
On Mar 30, 5:14 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:

Every pilot must know when he's in a spiral dive and
how to correct it.
Hard input will shatter the a/c, especially if IAS is near
red line, which happens quickly, so be gentle.

In my experience, gentle application of elevator with
reverse aileron is ok. However, jerking the elevator
can snug the turn and exceed the g-rating, specially
if the airlerons are used inappropriately.
I'd like to hear an expert opinion.
Ken

The private pilot student is taught to recognize the spiral, cut
the power, level the wings, and ease out of the dive.

"level and ***ease*** out".
The pilot should yell out "spiral dive" as fast as he
he recognizes that and that then institutes the cool
recovery procedure, that differs from a spin stall.
Is that right?
I'm wondering about rudder application differences.

In that exact
order. Anything less is cause for failure of the exercise on the
flight test. It's the failure to recognize the spiral that often gets
the VFR-only pilot after he gets into IMC. Flight is coordinated and
he doesn't feel anything. He isn't trained to trust, yet cross-check,
all the instruments. He trusts his sense of balance, which tells him
big lies when his eyes have nothing to look at outside.

I concur. The pilot reported his Artificial Horizon Indicator
(from what I've read) was to him faulty.
Yeah, a faulty AH can certainly **** up a pilot on
instruments, though the fella was flying in daytime.
Possibly, he was clouded, (not VFR).

Some slippery airplanes will pull up hard on their own when the
wings are levelled. The stability of the aircraft causes the nose to
rise when airspeed rises, and so, if the speed is high enough, when
the turn is stopped by levelling the wings the nose will come up on
its own, sometimes hard enough to cause structural damage or failure.

Ok.

Many of these slippery sorts will experience failure of the
horizontal stabilizer first. The airplane then flops over onto its
back and the wings fail downward due to the negative G loading. The
210 and Bonanza were famous for that sort of thing.
Dan

Thank you Dan, that's an unpleasant Roger.
Ken

On Mar 31, 5:03*pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:


"level and ***ease*** out".
The pilot should yell out "spiral dive" as fast as he
he recognizes that and that then institutes the cool
recovery procedure, that differs from a spin stall.
Is that right?

Only if your mommy is listening to you playing flight sim.

Cheers

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news:0c5b99d7-c498-
:


"level and ***ease*** out".
The pilot should yell out "spiral dive" as fast as he
he recognizes that and that then institutes the cool
recovery procedure, that differs from a spin stall.
Is that right?
I'm wondering about rudder application differences.

I'd say you wonder which way "up" is.

In that exact
order. Anything less is cause for failure of the exercise on the
flight test. It's the failure to recognize the spiral that often gets
the VFR-only pilot after he gets into IMC. Flight is coordinated and
he doesn't feel anything. He isn't trained to trust, yet cross-check,
all the instruments. He trusts his sense of balance, which tells him
big lies when his eyes have nothing to look at outside.

I concur. The pilot reported his Artificial Horizon Indicator
(from what I've read) was to him faulty.
Yeah, a faulty AH can certainly **** up a pilot on
instruments, though the fella was flying in daytime.
Possibly, he was clouded, (not VFR).

He ws clouded? Bwahwhahwhahwhahhwhahwhahwh!



Some slippery airplanes will pull up hard on their own when the
wings are levelled. The stability of the aircraft causes the nose to
rise when airspeed rises, and so, if the speed is high enough, when
the turn is stopped by levelling the wings the nose will come up on
its own, sometimes hard enough to cause structural damage or failure.

Ok.

Many of these slippery sorts will experience failure of the
horizontal stabilizer first. The airplane then flops over onto its
back and the wings fail downward due to the negative G loading. The
210 and Bonanza were famous for that sort of thing.
Dan

Thank you Dan, that's an unpleasant Roger.


No such thing as an unpleasant roger, fjukktard.

(the rest of you can look it up)


Bertie

On Mar 31, 12:03 am, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:

"level and ***ease*** out".
The pilot should yell out "spiral dive" as fast as he
he recognizes that and that then institutes the cool
recovery procedure, that differs from a spin stall.

A spin is a stalled condition of flight.

How did you now know that?


Dan Mc

"Private" wrote in message
...
Piper Malibu down east of Edmonton 5 sob

FYI

http://news.google.ca/nwshp?hl=en&ta...577933&topic=h

http://discussions.flightaware.com/v...?p=47890#47890

http://www.aviation.ca/component/opt...4184/catid,55/

Condolences to family & friends.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...ub=CTVNewsAt11

http://news.google.ca/nwshp?hl=en&ta...577933&topic=n

On Mar 31, 11:02 pm, "Private" wrote:
"Private" wrote in message

...

Piper Malibu down east of Edmonton 5 sob

FYI

http://news.google.ca/nwshp?hl=en&ta...577933&topic=h

http://discussions.flightaware.com/v...?p=47890#47890

http://www.aviation.ca/component/opt...temid,306/func...

Condolences to family & friends.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...80329/alta_pla...

http://news.google.ca/nwshp?hl=en&ta...577933&topic=n

This is news to me,
http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...8-825a02ca8ec5

So in IFR in dense cloud, the AH starts going funny,
one still x-checks against the heading indicator and
the altimeter/rate of descent.
Finally there's the magnetic compass that is fool-
proof, (not idiot proof-Bertie couldn't find it ;-).
For rate of descent, the power setting vs, KIAS gives
a fair good idea of the rate of descent.

That all works for a 1/2 ass pilot, however if the cabin
pressure had a slow leak, and the pilot slowly looses
mental faculties, (Bertie is a typical example), that
could lead to pilot confusion.
Ken

On Apr 1, 12:06 pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
On Mar 31, 11:02 pm, "Private" wrote:



"Private" wrote in message

...

Piper Malibu down east of Edmonton 5 sob

FYI

http://news.google.ca/nwshp?hl=en&ta...577933&topic=h

http://discussions.flightaware.com/v...?p=47890#47890

http://www.aviation.ca/component/opt...temid,306/func...

Condolences to family & friends.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...80329/alta_pla...

http://news.google.ca/nwshp?hl=en&ta...577933&topic=n

This is news to me,http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...d=1c6483cc-309...

So in IFR in dense cloud, the AH starts going funny,
one still x-checks against the heading indicator and
the altimeter/rate of descent.
Finally there's the magnetic compass that is fool-
proof, (not idiot proof-Bertie couldn't find it ;-).
For rate of descent, the power setting vs, KIAS gives
a fair good idea of the rate of descent.

That all works for a 1/2 ass pilot, however if the cabin
pressure had a slow leak, and the pilot slowly looses
mental faculties, (Bertie is a typical example), that
could lead to pilot confusion.
Ken

And the last time you flew partial panel in IMC was....?