The ethanol nightmare has arrived!

"Matt Whiting" wrote

I'd like to first see him depress the clutch pedal! :-)

chuckle Yeah, that would be a whopper, wouldn't it!
--
Jim in NC

"Al" wrote in message
. ..

I know this suggestion may be a bit far out, and you may not have the
time or ability to make it happen, but perhaps one of your friends would.

How about getting a slightly clapped out fuel truck, and setting up
yourself as a distributor, and going and getting a load at a time of
untainted fuel, and bringing it back and either using it yourself, or
selling it to yourself and a few others?

Thinking about it. Now looking for a fuel source. Of course, then I
would have to go through a huge bureaucratic process to get that truck
onto the field. But...I'm thinking about it.

Good. Until a few people start doing that, the FBO's will continue to sit
on their butts, and not go out of their ways to make good fuel available,
along with the 100LL.
--
Jim in NC

"Al" wrote ...
...on Friday and pulled up next to a Xebra Electric car.

A full charge for that car is about 4 kwh. At our
rate of 5.2 cents per kwh, that's a good deal. It gets about 35 miles to
the charge.

Damn, that's cheap! I'll buy one (plug-in) when they become available. Even
though on Long Island NY, I'm paying about 9.5 cents for energy and 10.5
cents for system and delivery. With fees and taxes, the final comes to about
21.2 cents per KWH. In the summer operating period it goes up another penny
or two.

About 15 years ago my company got a few "electric conversions" for local
use, and put in a few extra charging stations in for free employee use. A
year later the program died and the only users for the charging stations now
are the diesel block heater crowd.

wrote in message
...
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

Matt W. Barrow wrote:
wrote in message
...
Jim Logajan wrote:
wrote:
LOCAL trucks, LOCAL trains, and LOCAL busses, but not those
hauling
crap between cities, much less across the country.

Absent the invention of Mr. Fusion, there isn't going to be any
electric powered trucks hauling carrots from Fresno to Chicago.

Ahem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_locomotive

Electric trains work in parts of Europe because a long haul there
is what would be called just down the road in the US and for local
transit such as the Bay Area Bart system.

Absent the invention of Mr. Fusion, there isn't going to be any
electric powered trains between LA and Omaha or even El Paso.

http://fusion.gat.com/global/Home (Maybe in our lifetimes??)

Maybe if you are about 10 right now.

However, Mr. Fusion as in Back to the Future will likely never happen.

And a computer will never need more than 640K of memory. :~)




Prolly not, but the large scale hot plant probably will. That plant in
France is going ahead and they do expect it to work. If it does, most of
us will at least live to see that, and most of those will live to see
large scale implementation of the technology. Even given the inevitable
delays with projects like these, cadarache should be running within ten
years and commercial aplication should be within another ten.

Add ten years for the environmental impact report and another ten
for the lawsuits by the wack jobs claiming it will destroy the planet.

So, are you saying the issue is one of bureaucracy, rather than
technological?

Matt W. Barrow wrote:

wrote in message
...
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

Matt W. Barrow wrote:
wrote in message
...
Jim Logajan wrote:
wrote:
LOCAL trucks, LOCAL trains, and LOCAL busses, but not those
hauling
crap between cities, much less across the country.

Absent the invention of Mr. Fusion, there isn't going to be any
electric powered trucks hauling carrots from Fresno to Chicago.

Ahem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_locomotive

Electric trains work in parts of Europe because a long haul there
is what would be called just down the road in the US and for local
transit such as the Bay Area Bart system.

Absent the invention of Mr. Fusion, there isn't going to be any
electric powered trains between LA and Omaha or even El Paso.

http://fusion.gat.com/global/Home (Maybe in our lifetimes??)

Maybe if you are about 10 right now.

However, Mr. Fusion as in Back to the Future will likely never happen.

And a computer will never need more than 640K of memory. :~)




Prolly not, but the large scale hot plant probably will. That plant in
France is going ahead and they do expect it to work. If it does, most of
us will at least live to see that, and most of those will live to see
large scale implementation of the technology. Even given the inevitable
delays with projects like these, cadarache should be running within ten
years and commercial aplication should be within another ten.

Add ten years for the environmental impact report and another ten
for the lawsuits by the wack jobs claiming it will destroy the planet.

So, are you saying the issue is one of bureaucracy, rather than
technological?

No.

As is usual for any discussion on matters of energy, the discussion tends
to focus on one issue and ignores the big picture.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Apr 12, 10:56*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"Al" wrote in message

. ..



*I know this suggestion may be a bit far out, and you may not have the
time or ability to make it happen, but perhaps one of your friends would.

How about getting a slightly clapped out fuel truck, and setting up
yourself as a distributor, and going and getting a load at a time of
untainted fuel, and bringing it back and either using it yourself, or
selling it to yourself and a few others?

Thinking about it. *Now looking for a fuel source. *Of course, then I
would have to go through a huge bureaucratic process to get that truck
onto the field. *But...I'm thinking about it.

Good. *Until a few people start doing that, the FBO's will continue to sit
on their butts, and not go out of their ways to make good fuel available,
along with the 100LL.
--
Jim in NC

The problem with this is that it is easy to find used fuel trucks.
However, driving them off of the airport requires insurance that will
make your auto fuel cost more that than the 100LL unless you are
selling or using very large quantities of fuel. This is why most Av-
gas trucks never leave the airport.

Brian

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 00:05:03 GMT, wrote:

I like the idea of electric cars and trucks better. For the long-haul
stuff you might have to stick with diesel longer, until there are
breakthroughs in supercapacitors and charging systems to make quick
"fill-ups" possible.

Never going to happen.

Batteries, maybe, capacitors, never; basic physics.

Eh?

Why not?

"Brian" wrote

The problem with this is that it is easy to find used fuel trucks.
However, driving them off of the airport requires insurance that will
make your auto fuel cost more that than the 100LL unless you are
selling or using very large quantities of fuel. This is why most Av-
gas trucks never leave the airport.

The next best thing would be to get to know someone that has a fleet of 18
wheeler delivery trucks, and see if he will load one of the cells in his
truck with some clean premium, and bring it to you at the airport.
--
Jim in NC

Dan Luke wrote:
On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 00:05:03 GMT, wrote:

I like the idea of electric cars and trucks better. For the long-haul
stuff you might have to stick with diesel longer, until there are
breakthroughs in supercapacitors and charging systems to make quick
"fill-ups" possible.

Never going to happen.

Batteries, maybe, capacitors, never; basic physics.

Eh?

Why not?

The short answer is the materials making up the capacitor start coming
apart when the internal field gets to a certain point for the energy
density and the relationship between current, voltage, and capacitance
for the charger.

Battery techonology improvements hold better promise for small vehicle,
such as automobile, use.

The bottom line is electricity doesn't store well, so carrying it with
you is problematic.

If electricity were free, the best use of it with existing technology
is to use it to manufacture chemical fuels, which would **** off the
green house gas faction, but real life is far from perfect.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote in message
...
Matt W. Barrow wrote:

Add ten years for the environmental impact report and another ten
for the lawsuits by the wack jobs claiming it will destroy the planet.

So, are you saying the issue is one of bureaucracy, rather than
technological?

No.

As is usual for any discussion on matters of energy, the discussion tends
to focus on one issue and ignores the big picture.

And the "Big Picture" is... what, that is missing in my question to your
statement?