USAF Loses UAV Over Populated Area In Training Exercise

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message


I would assume that they take every reasonable efforts to avoid
having to land in urban areas in case of engine trouble, just ilke GA
pilots are required to do.

Larry made a similar assertion a while back and was unable to demonstrate
such a requirement. Do you have a link to where this requirement for GA to
avoid landing in urban areas (or, as Larry put it, to be "within gliding
distance of a landing site") is specified?

I'll grant it makes sense for a pilot to avoid off-airport landings, but
that applies regardless of urban or rural.

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/blogs/TknoFlyer
http://sage1solutions.com/products
NEW! FlyteBalance v2.0 (W&B); FlyteLog v2.0 (Logbook)
____________________

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Sat, 10 May 2008 10:52:06 -0700 (PDT), Gig 601XL Builder
wrote in
:

We happen to be fighting a war in an Urban area right now.

Is the urban area you mention green and swampy like the site in
Florida?

Urban is urban. If they were flying over swamp then what the hell are
you bitching about.




Do think that it might be helpful for the troops to train in an urban
enviroment?

Sure. How about over their barracks, or would that be too
inconvenient?

They might well need city sized area to practice. Would you be bitching
if it was a couple of kids with a R/C plane flying over the area.

On Mon, 12 May 2008 09:45:14 -0500, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Sat, 10 May 2008 10:52:06 -0700 (PDT), Gig 601XL Builder
wrote in
:

We happen to be fighting a war in an Urban area right now.

Is the urban area you mention green and swampy like the site in
Florida?

Urban is urban. If they were flying over swamp then what the hell are
you bitching about.


My question was meant to refute your implication that urban
Afghanistan, or Iraq bare any resemblance to Florida.




Do think that it might be helpful for the troops to train in an urban
enviroment?

Sure. How about over their barracks, or would that be too
inconvenient?

They might well need city sized area to practice. Would you be bitching
if it was a couple of kids with a R/C plane flying over the area.

It's common among modelers to assure that the aircraft is responsive
to control inputs before it is launched. Because it was reported that
the subject Raven aircraft was uncontrollable immediately after
launch, its loss of control is consistent with not having its control
responses verified before being launched.

The vast majority of modelers fly at designated fields, not over
peoples homes and highways, so the likelihood of a mishap involving
humans is less likely. If modelers can act responsibly, perhaps the
military should take a lesson.

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 09:45:14 -0500, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Sat, 10 May 2008 10:52:06 -0700 (PDT), Gig 601XL Builder
wrote in
:

We happen to be fighting a war in an Urban area right now.

Is the urban area you mention green and swampy like the site in
Florida?

Urban is urban. If they were flying over swamp then what the hell are
you bitching about.


My question was meant to refute your implication that urban
Afghanistan, or Iraq bare any resemblance to Florida.




Do think that it might be helpful for the troops to train in an urban
enviroment?

Sure. How about over their barracks, or would that be too
inconvenient?

They might well need city sized area to practice. Would you be bitching
if it was a couple of kids with a R/C plane flying over the area.

It's common among modelers to assure that the aircraft is responsive
to control inputs before it is launched. Because it was reported that
the subject Raven aircraft was uncontrollable immediately after
launch, its loss of control is consistent with not having its control
responses verified before being launched.

It is also consistent with the system failing on takeoff and you have
zero information on Raven preflight procedures.

The vast majority of modelers fly at designated fields, not over
peoples homes and highways, so the likelihood of a mishap involving
humans is less likely. If modelers can act responsibly, perhaps the
military should take a lesson.

Utter nonsense.

The vast majority of modelers fly at whatever open space they can find.

There is no one to "designate" a model field.

Models often fly over homes and higways in the heavily populated areas
of the US.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Mon, 12 May 2008 15:55:05 GMT, wrote in
:

The vast majority of modelers fly at whatever open space they can find.

Certainly that is true out in the country, but within urban settings,
radio control model flight is usually conducted at model flying fields
for obvious reasons.

You will see from the document below, that designated model flying
fields are indeed coveted in the Los Angeles area:


http://www.edsfclub.org/30%20Years%2...ld%20III. pdf
The city of Fountain Valley determined that 2 golf courses in Mile
Square Park were insufficient and a 3rd one was required. This was
land given to the city by the government as park land, but
ignoring the protests of modelers and other organizations who had
used the land for decades, the city created yet another urban
desert (golf course) for the sole enjoyment of those able to
afford the city’s green fees. The fliers who had enjoyed Mile
Square as a world class RC model site were forced out with no
alternatives and many chose to join us at El Dorado. This created
a bit more crowding than we were used to, but we made many new
friends and the end result has been good for all ...

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 15:55:05 GMT, wrote in
:

The vast majority of modelers fly at whatever open space they can find.

Certainly that is true out in the country, but within urban settings,
radio control model flight is usually conducted at model flying fields
for obvious reasons.

You will see from the document below, that designated model flying
fields are indeed coveted in the Los Angeles area:


http://www.edsfclub.org/30%20Years%2...ld%20III. pdf
The city of Fountain Valley determined that 2 golf courses in Mile
Square Park were insufficient and a 3rd one was required. This was
land given to the city by the government as park land, but
ignoring the protests of modelers and other organizations who had
used the land for decades, the city created yet another urban
desert (golf course) for the sole enjoyment of those able to
afford the city’s green fees. The fliers who had enjoyed Mile
Square as a world class RC model site were forced out with no
alternatives and many chose to join us at El Dorado. This created
a bit more crowding than we were used to, but we made many new
friends and the end result has been good for all ...

A press release from on R/C club wouldn't prove the point even if it
were on topic and this one isn't. You do realize that R/C fliers do fly
other than in groups. There was one flying over my house this weekend.
It took of from the street about a block away.

P.S. I did not hide under my bed an shiver in fear while it was up.

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 15:55:05 GMT, wrote in
:

The vast majority of modelers fly at whatever open space they can find.

Certainly that is true out in the country, but within urban settings,
radio control model flight is usually conducted at model flying fields
for obvious reasons.

Which is whatever open space they can find.

You will see from the document below, that designated model flying
fields are indeed coveted in the Los Angeles area:

What you see in the document you reference is that many cities in SoCal
have run the modelers out of the city owned parks so they go to whatever
open space they can find.

And once again, there is no one to "designate" a model flying field.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 17:45:04 GMT, wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 15:55:05 GMT, wrote in
:

The vast majority of modelers fly at whatever open space they can find.

Certainly that is true out in the country, but within urban settings,
radio control model flight is usually conducted at model flying fields
for obvious reasons.

Which is whatever open space they can find.

It's easy to make an assertion without providing any supporting
documentation.

You mean like you've been doing about the Raven and the USAF procedures
for operating it?

You will see from the document below, that designated model flying
fields are indeed coveted in the Los Angeles area:

What you see in the document you reference is that many cities in SoCal
have run the modelers out of the city owned parks so they go to whatever
open space they can find.

And once again, there is no one to "designate" a model flying field.

It would seem to me, that prior to its conversion into a golf course,
Mile Square Park was regarded by the city of Fountain Valley as a
model flying field. But, no doubt you are able to provide evidence to
the contrary, right?

Actually, Mile Square Park was originally known as Mile Square Naval
Outlying Landing Field until it was totally abandoned by the military
in 1974 and converted into a park.

See:

http://www.airfields-freeman.com/CA/...OrangeCo_C.htm

and:

http://www.ocparks.com/milesquare/de...p?Show=History

The park was never designated a "model flying field" but many modelers
and landsailers used the three paved runways until the city chased
them all out in 2000 to tear out the runways and expand the golf course.

The runways when they existed were a very small part of the total park.

And yes, I've actually been to Mile Square Park many times.

One thing you seem to be totally incapable of understanding is that
there is no one to "designate" a model flying field. There are no
specific law or regulations governing model flight nor any organization
empowered to do any designation.

Under US law that which is not prohibited is allowed. Or, in other
words, modelers fly anywhere there is a flat space where no one objects
to their presence.

After the Ontario Motor Speedway shut down the abandoned parking lots
were extensively used by modelers until developers chased them out.

That was next to the 10 freeway and just under the approach end to a
runway at KONT (class C) that no longer exists.

Modelers used to fly in the empty field between a housing development
and the 15 freeway in Fontana until developers built houses on the field.

Modelers are flying off a field just of the 30 freeway next to a housing
development in Highland.

You haven't a clue.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
m...

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

I don't believe it is very prudent of the military to operate
equipment designed for use in the war theater(s) domestically.


Do you have any rational basis for that belief?


It appears that you do not.




I believe an out of control UAV, as occurred in this instance, is a
potential hazard. If you disagree, please permit me to fly a Raven
UAV into your windshield at freeway speeds, or into a group of school
children on a playground. :-(


How would you fly an out of control Raven UAV into my windshield at
freeway speeds, or into a group of school children on a playground. Why
would you desire to do that? Do you hate children? Do you hate me?



I have no idea, other than this one incident. Is that information
publicly accessible with or without a FOIA request?


Beats me. When you find out let me know.

On May 10, 5:35 pm, "Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net wrote:
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in x.com...



Sticks and stones, fjukkwit.

I can do this for a looong time,,

Bertie

Oh I'm sure you could do this forever. Most people that have no life other
than the Usenet find it easy. Why would you be any different.

This is what losers like you and MX do.

And you too, dimbulb. I'm just making an observation here, but you
seem to be the ring around the bathtub for the Bunyip- what does that
say about you?