Pitch vs. trim in flight phases

B A R R Y wrote:
On Sat, 17 May 2008 19:55:58 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:

A fun exercise is to take your hands off the yoke completely and fly with
just power, trim, and rudder. It really teaches you to make small
adjustments and to wait for the plane to settle down before making another
change.


It is!

Once upon a time, folks learned to fly r/c in a similar manner. It
teaches loads about aerodynamics.

True. Some of the greatest teaching moments you'll ever have as a CFI
are those you spend allowing a student to do interesting, safe, and fun
things with the airplane.

--
Dudley Henriques

In rec.aviation.piloting Dudley Henriques wrote:

On long cross countries in some of the WW2 prop fighters we handled on
occasion, I would set up and trim out carefully then relax in the seat
as comfortably as I could and fly the trim wheels. With a bit of
practice it became possible to hold the altimeter needle to within a few
feet of desired :-)

On long cross countries in rattle trap old Cessna 150s, I would set my trim
the best I could and then shift my flight bag slightly fore and aft until
the altimeter vaguely settled down. If it was really bad, I'd move my seat
forward or backward a notch. This seemed a lot more precise than moving the
trim wheel.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Boise, ID

Frank Stutzman wrote:
In rec.aviation.piloting Dudley Henriques wrote:

On long cross countries in some of the WW2 prop fighters we handled on
occasion, I would set up and trim out carefully then relax in the seat
as comfortably as I could and fly the trim wheels. With a bit of
practice it became possible to hold the altimeter needle to within a few
feet of desired :-)

On long cross countries in rattle trap old Cessna 150s, I would set my trim
the best I could and then shift my flight bag slightly fore and aft until
the altimeter vaguely settled down. If it was really bad, I'd move my seat
forward or backward a notch. This seemed a lot more precise than moving the
trim wheel.


I believe the engineering term for this is "linear hi-jinks" :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

On May 17, 5:34 pm, Frank Stutzman wrote:
In rec.aviation.piloting Dudley Henriques wrote:

On long cross countries in some of the WW2 prop fighters we handled on
occasion, I would set up and trim out carefully then relax in the seat
as comfortably as I could and fly the trim wheels. With a bit of
practice it became possible to hold the altimeter needle to within a few
feet of desired :-)

On long cross countries in rattle trap old Cessna 150s, I would set my trim
the best I could and then shift my flight bag slightly fore and aft until
the altimeter vaguely settled down. If it was really bad, I'd move my seat
forward or backward a notch. This seemed a lot more precise than moving the
trim wheel.

LOL. I thought that was just me. I'd be doing some
two handed navigation work, in a 150, and notice my
nose start to rise a bit, so I'd just lean forward.
Kens Rule, adjust trim when yoke is in your eye.
Ken

In rec.aviation.student Roy Smith wrote:
A fun exercise is to take your hands off the yoke completely and fly with
just power, trim, and rudder. It really teaches you to make small
adjustments and to wait for the plane to settle down before making another
change.

A few weeks ago I was out soaring on a pretty decent thermal day. It was
hot, and I couldn't get high enough to cool off, so I was getting pretty
warm in the cockpit. I was switching off between my hands, holding one in
front of the vent while flying with the other for a few seconds, then
changing.

Finally I thought, I wonder how well I can do with just my feet. So I let
go of the stick, held both hands in front of the vent, cooled them off
nicely and tried to hold my circle with the rudder. A thermal is not
exactly calm air so it didn't work all that great, but I only needed
occasional corrections with my hands.

Of course I wouldn't do this at low altitude due to the risk of a
stall-spin if the rudder inputs are too aggressive, but I was at a
reasonably comfortable altitude for recovery if that had happened.

I had a much easier scenario this past winter flying in mountain wave.
Wave is perfectly smooth so it's a great opportunity for flying hands off.
Trim it up, keep it straight with minor rudder corrections, and ride the
elevator up. I felt like an airliner pilot on that trip. There was a solid
cloud deck ahead which made it look like I was flying above a solid
overcast (it broke up behind me so I was sure of being able to get down,
though), and it was perfectly smooth. The wind noise even sounded like the
front of an airliner. It was damn cold at 12,000ft... just like an
airliner! (Haven't these guys heard of heaters? I get annoyed freezing my
ass off on every international flight.)

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

On May 18, 1:32*pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
On May 17, 5:34 pm, Frank Stutzman wrote:

In rec.aviation.piloting Dudley Henriques wrote:

On long cross countries in some of the WW2 prop fighters we handled on
occasion, I would set up and trim out carefully then relax in the seat
as comfortably as I could and fly the trim wheels. With a bit of
practice it became possible to hold the altimeter needle to within a few
feet of desired :-)

On long cross countries in rattle trap old Cessna 150s, I would set my trim
the best I could and then shift my flight bag slightly fore and aft until
the altimeter vaguely settled down. *If it was really bad, I'd move my seat
forward or backward a notch. *This seemed a lot more precise than moving the
trim wheel.

LOL. I thought that was just me. I'd be doing some
two handed navigation work, in a 150, and notice my
nose start to rise a bit, so I'd just lean forward.
Kens Rule, adjust trim when yoke is in your eye.

Are you a midget?

Cheers

Nomen Nescio submitted this idea :
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From: Mxsmanic

If you don't have to ask someone how to trim a real plane, then it follows
that no training is required to do so

Does anyone here really need further proof that MX is functionally retarded?

Thanks for adding more spam to the newsgroup.

Sheesh.

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Robert M. Gary laid this down on his screen :
On May 16, 10:32 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Dudley Henriques writes:
You adjust pitch and hold that pitch, then trim. The general "rule" is
nose attitude, adjust power, trim the airplane.

OK, I will try that.

I'm not sure how you can without a force feedback joy stick. You use
the trim to remove pressure from the yoke.

-Robert

I had hoped you would be better than this response, Robert. sigh

More_Flaps wrote in
:

On May 18, 1:32*pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
On May 17, 5:34 pm, Frank Stutzman
wrote:

In rec.aviation.piloting Dudley Henriques
wrote:

On long cross countries in some of the WW2 prop fighters we
handled on

occasion, I would set up and trim out carefully then relax in the
seat

as comfortably as I could and fly the trim wheels. With a bit of
practice it became possible to hold the altimeter needle to
within a f
ew
feet of desired :-)

On long cross countries in rattle trap old Cessna 150s, I would set
my t
rim
the best I could and then shift my flight bag slightly fore and aft
unti
l
the altimeter vaguely settled down. *If it was really bad, I'd move
my
seat
forward or backward a notch. *This seemed a lot more precise than
movi
ng the
trim wheel.

LOL. I thought that was just me. I'd be doing some
two handed navigation work, in a 150, and notice my
nose start to rise a bit, so I'd just lean forward.
Kens Rule, adjust trim when yoke is in your eye.

Are you a midget?

Cheers


A mental one certainly.


Bertie

On Sat, 17 May 2008 13:41:41 -0400, "Barry" wrote:

Well, the use of it doesn't require any training. However, as CFIs we
bang our heads against the wall because students don't trim often
enough. This is especially true in the pattern. If you let them,
students will build up a sweat holding the yoke with a death grip.

A good way to keep students from doing this is to have them fly with a pen or
pencil interwoven between the fingers. If the student squeezes too hard, it
hurts, which reminds the student to relax the grip.


It depends on whether you are trying to get a student to hold the yoke
properly or as was mentioned earlier of in another thread about a
student panicking. In the case of panic they'll bust the pencil and
bleed all over the carpet. In the case of slowly tightening their
grip as with increasing stress, they can "desensitize" the area and
leave one substantial crease in hand or fingers before they actually
feel it. In that case it usually doesn't hurt until they let go.:-))
Kinda like falling asleep with your forearm over your forehead. Man,
but it hurts to put that arm back down.

I never had a problem with the "death grip" although it wasn't until
flying instruments I started using the "two finger" approach (no pun
intended). The rougher it'd get the lighter I'd hold the yoke to the
point of just bumping the yoke with the thumb or forefinger to get a
response.


Roger (K8RI) ARRL Life Member
N833R (World's oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com