How much fuel do you prefer to carry?

On Aug 13, 10:46 am, Dale wrote:
In article
,

wrote:

The statement you made was that IMC required flight by reference to
instruments. That is in error. Your question is a very weak attempt to
divert attention from your error. Please, try a new gambit -- you've
exhausted that one.

IMC = Instrument Meteorological Conditions. Pretty much by definition
you'll be on the gauges if you're IMC.

Another someone who is ignorant of the realities of IMC offering an
opinion.

Bob F. writes:

There is some room here between VMC and complete loss of outside references
resulting in complete reference to instruments needed.

No, there isn't. That margin is for safety. If you're in IMC, chances are
that you won't be able to use visual references for very long, and things can
change extraordinarily fast. This has caught countless pilots, many of whom
were sure that flying in IMC visually was okay as long as they could see
something out the window.

VMC means that if you roll the dice, you're likely to win. IMC means that if
you roll the dice, you're likely to use. How much of a gambler are you?

writes:

If visibility is 4.5 miles, you are by defininition in IMC.

Are you always solely on instruments, or is there any reason to be
on instruments at all, with a visibility of 4.5 miles?

If you're in IMC, you need to be on instruments. At 4.5 miles, you're only
60-90 seconds away from not being able to see anything. Are you ready for
that?

Hard experience has taught the aviation industry that just being clear of
low-visibility weather isn't enough; you have to keep a safety margin between
you and that weather. That means that you have to be on instruments once
you're inside that margin. If you wait until you really can't see anything,
it might be too late, especially if you are unprepared.

Are you always solely on instruments, or is there any reason to be
on instruments at all, with a visibility of 2.5 miles?

If you're in IMC, you need to be on instruments. In IMC, instruments become
your final reference, no matter what you see out the window. When visibility
drops, instruments are your exclusive reference, no matter what you feel.

Ricky writes:

Anthony, NO, NO, NO! You do not have to fly exclusively by instruments
in IMC. There are often conditions IN LEGAL IMC where on flys by
visual reference.

Legally, you must be on instruments. The law isn't written that way just to
make life difficult for pilots.

You can always rely on instruments, even in the clearest weather. But you
cannot always rely on visual references. And if you are in IMC, you may only
be seconds away from a loss of visual references.

IFR DOES NOT mean "flying by instruments alone." You are wrong! Show
me where you learned this gibberish if you are so sure about it.

I'll quote you to the NTSB; that might make it easier for them to determine
probable cause after you're gone.

The reason they are disagreeing with you is because you are NOT a
pilot ...

The reason they are disagreeing with me is that their desire to prove me wrong
is so intense that it takes priority over their own safety. If they cannot
shake themselves free of this emotion, they will be a danger to themselves in
the air.

On Aug 13, 3:55*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:
If visibility is 4.5 miles, you are by defininition in IMC.

Are you always solely on instruments, or is there any reason to be
on instruments at all, with a visibility of 4.5 miles?

If you're in IMC, you need to be on instruments. *At 4.5 miles, you're only
60-90 seconds away from not being able to see anything. *Are you ready for
that?

Hard experience has taught the aviation industry that just being clear of
low-visibility weather isn't enough; you have to keep a safety margin between
you and that weather. *That means that you have to be on instruments once
you're inside that margin. *If you wait until you really can't see anything,
it might be too late, especially if you are unprepared.

Are you always solely on instruments, or is there any reason to be
on instruments at all, with a visibility of 2.5 miles?

If you're in IMC, you need to be on instruments. *In IMC, instruments become
your final reference, no matter what you see out the window. *When visibility
drops, instruments are your exclusive reference, no matter what you feel.

You are, in this thread, at an intellectual and experience
disadvantage. You asserted a requirement to be in instruments in IMC:
that is wrong.

EVERY current instrument rated pilot does transitions between
reference to instruments and outside reference. We do it on take off,
en route, on approach, and on the miss in actual. That you don't
understand that, that it is outside your experience, does not make it
not true. You have typed yourself into a corner, and now are looking
for a way to regain some creditability, and it is not working.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Bob F. writes:

There is some room here between VMC and complete loss of outside
references
resulting in complete reference to instruments needed.

No, there isn't. That margin is for safety. If you're in IMC, chances
are
that you won't be able to use visual references for very long, and things
can
change extraordinarily fast. This has caught countless pilots, many of
whom
were sure that flying in IMC visually was okay as long as they could see
something out the window.

VMC means that if you roll the dice, you're likely to win. IMC means that
if
you roll the dice, you're likely to use. How much of a gambler are you?


When I said "some room here" I meant in terms of the definition not in a
practical sense. Secondly this is all moot. Having several thousand
instrument hours and going on and off the gauges is second nature after a
while. When you sense outside references in your peripheral vision you
start to use them, and slowly transition. I've always had warning when
going back on the gauges so the transition was easy that way also. Never
had any kind of problem.

--
Regards, BobF.

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

If visibility is 4.5 miles, you are by defininition in IMC.

Are you always solely on instruments, or is there any reason to be
on instruments at all, with a visibility of 4.5 miles?

If you're in IMC, you need to be on instruments. At 4.5 miles, you're only
60-90 seconds away from not being able to see anything. Are you ready for
that?

If you are in class G at 10,001 feet and the visibilty is 4.5 miles,
you are in IMC.

If you drop down to 9,999 feet with the same visibilty, you are in VMC.

If you are 2001 feet horizontally from a cloud, you only about 0.3
seconds away from not being able to see anything. Are you ready for
that?

Have you a clue yet how ridiculous your absolute statements are?


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Ricky writes:

Anthony, NO, NO, NO! You do not have to fly exclusively by instruments
in IMC. There are often conditions IN LEGAL IMC where on flys by
visual reference.

Legally, you must be on instruments.

Care to quote the law or regulation that says you must be "on instruments"
whenever you are in IMC?


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Aug 13, 4:05*pm, wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
Ricky writes:
Anthony, NO, NO, NO! You do not have to fly exclusively by instruments
in IMC. There are often conditions IN LEGAL IMC where on flys by
visual reference.
Legally, you must be on instruments.

Care to quote the law or regulation that says you must be "on instruments"
whenever you are in IMC?

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Whoa, please be careful. The above looks like I, Ricky, am the one who
said that ("Legally, you must be on instruments.")
I did not say that, our resident IFR expert Anthony did, and it most
certainly is wrong. By the way you did not trim the post/reply it
looks like I said it.
Trimming posts properly here seems to be oft ignored or done
incorrectly.

Ricky

On Aug 13, 2:58*pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

Ricky writes:
Anthony, NO, NO, NO! You do not have to fly exclusively by instruments
in IMC. There are often conditions IN LEGAL IMC where on flys by
visual reference.

Legally, you must be on instruments.

Anthony, that is not the truth. You are wrong.

I'll quote you to the NTSB; that might make it easier for them to determine
probable cause after you're gone.

Where are you pulling this out of? Thin air? How many ways do lots of
people have to say "you do not have to be on instruments in IMC or in
IFR? You can fly visually in IFR and IMC, what do you not understand
about that? I am an instrument pilot with lots and lots of hours, I
know the regs, the rules, and how to fly in IMC. Why do you insist on
continuing to make a fool out of yourself with your incorrectness?
What do you not get that IMC does not have to mean that you can't see
outside?

The reason they are disagreeing with me is that their desire to prove me wrong
is so intense that it takes priority over their own safety. *If they cannot
shake themselves free of this emotion, they will be a danger to themselves in
the air.

You don't have to be proven wrong. You simply ARE wrong. Why can't you
accept that from of a bunch of IFR pilots with thousands of hours?

Ricky