Why is Stealth So Important?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:


"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:SsUNb.70673$nt4.95664@attbi_s51...

There are "just" WOs and Commissioned Warrant Officers now. The WO1 rank
is not
a Commissioned Warrant Officer, but all CWO2 through CWO5 ranks are
Commissioned
Warrant Officers. Last I knew:


The "C" in CWO is for "Chief", not "Commissioned".

That's correct, no WO is commissioned whether WO, MWO, or CWO (of
any grade).
--

-Gord.

"John R Weiss" wrote:


BTW, I made an error earlier -- the USMC still has WO1s; the Navy and Coast
Guard do not.


....and it appears that I made an error also...I should have said
that there are no commissioned WO's in the Canadian military.
Sorry.
--

-Gord.

I read the original thread earlier and had a laff, it just goes to
show how little everyone knows about CWO's and I hope it stays that
way, it's kinda fun!!!

I guess my commissioning decree that I have hanging on my "I love me"
wall from the president of the United States and signed by the SECNAV
is just a mirage, or a fake then? I think you better get your facts
straight, here is some help coming from a (commisioned, there is no
other kind) Chief Warrant Officer in The US Navy...

In the Navy, you have to be at least a Chief (E7 or above) to even
apply. On the very moment you are commisioned (you go straight to
CW02, CWO3 if you are selected as an E9, there are no W.O's or even
W01's in the navy, you are a Chief Warrant Officer from day one ). We
have a permanant commission, not temporary. Most Line and Staff
Officers and LDO's have only a temporary commission, until they are
offered a permanant commission after being a LT for 2 years. So this
is at about the 6 year mark for them, and they are considered USNR
until they accept permanant commission and convert to USN.

One other big difference for us is that our selections and promotions
are only confirmed through the CNO. Other officer ranks are Senate
confirmed. Hope this helps a little to clear up any confusuion.


in theOn Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:17:23 GMT, "John R Weiss"
wrote:

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote...

The "C" in CWO is for "Chief", not "Commissioned".

True. Still, the CWO2 - CWO5 ranks are Commissioned.

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:45:40 GMT, fudog50 wrote:

I read the original thread earlier and had a laff, it just goes to
show how little everyone knows about CWO's and I hope it stays that
way, it's kinda fun!!!

I guess my commissioning decree that I have hanging on my "I love me"
wall from the president of the United States and signed by the SECNAV
is just a mirage, or a fake then? I think you better get your facts
straight, here is some help coming from a (commisioned, there is no
other kind) Chief Warrant Officer in The US Navy...

Well, I'm always willing to get my facts straight. But, can you cut me
a bit of slack and acknowledge that what is current today has not
always been the way it was?

The terminology "Warrant Officer" refers to the fact that he/she holds
the rank by (traditionally) the issuance of a "warrant"--a government
document bestowing rank and authority to conduct certain actions. A
"commission" for a military officer was presidential and with the
authority of congress. A warrant did not require that level of
authorization. Things have obviously changed and I willingly defer to
more current knowledge.

In the Navy, you have to be at least a Chief (E7 or above) to even
apply. On the very moment you are commisioned (you go straight to
CW02, CWO3 if you are selected as an E9, there are no W.O's or even
W01's in the navy, you are a Chief Warrant Officer from day one ). We
have a permanant commission, not temporary. Most Line and Staff
Officers and LDO's have only a temporary commission, until they are
offered a permanant commission after being a LT for 2 years. So this
is at about the 6 year mark for them, and they are considered USNR
until they accept permanant commission and convert to USN.

Well, that's a bit garbled. But, you're on my ground here. Commissions
for officers are not "temporary"--there is no expiration date. They
are "regular" or "reserve", indicating the component to which your
commission applies. The regular component is governed by grade
limitation policies.

One other big difference for us is that our selections and promotions
are only confirmed through the CNO. Other officer ranks are Senate
confirmed. Hope this helps a little to clear up any confusuion.

That's the grade limitation issue.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

I think it's a hoot that a navy *warrant* officer should be
commissioned, given that the whole point of the "warrant" was to
create an officer who wasn't commissioned.

The British navy used to have warrant officers, and probably devised
the system. Thus the OED: "an officer in certain armed services
(formerly also in the Navy) who holds office by a warrant, ranking
between a commissioned officer and an NCO."

Are you sure that what's on your wall is a commission and not a
warrant? Both are pieces of paper.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

I think it's a hoot that a navy *warrant* officer should be
commissioned, given that the whole point of the "warrant" was to
create an officer who wasn't commissioned.

Do you find it a "hoot" that the Army also considers its senior warrnats to
be commissioned?


The British navy used to have warrant officers, and probably devised
the system. Thus the OED: "an officer in certain armed services
(formerly also in the Navy) who holds office by a warrant, ranking
between a commissioned officer and an NCO."

Are you sure that what's on your wall is a commission and not a
warrant? Both are pieces of paper.

Personally, it all makes sense to me. By considering some warrants as
commissioned officers you increase their range of capabilities without any
real negative effect (IIRC when this program began a few years back there
was rumbling from some in the warranted community that it would result in
dire consequences--none of which seem to have come to be). Why shouldn't a
CWO be able to take a sworn statement from a troop as well as any other
commissioned officer? Why shouldn't a CWO be able to command his A-Team
(there is now a WO slot in every SF A-Team) or detachment with the full
authority and privaledges of his commissioned counterparts? The WO's remain
the same technical specilaists they always were--they now just enjoy a bit
more authority in some areas.

Brooks

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Cub Driver wrote:

I think it's a hoot that a navy *warrant* officer should be
commissioned, given that the whole point of the "warrant" was to
create an officer who wasn't commissioned.

The British navy used to have warrant officers, and probably devised
the system. Thus the OED: "an officer in certain armed services
(formerly also in the Navy) who holds office by a warrant, ranking
between a commissioned officer and an NCO."

Are you sure that what's on your wall is a commission and not a
warrant? Both are pieces of paper.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com


Glad you think it's a hoot. But the facts are that Chief Warrant
Officers in the USN carry commissions.
The differences are minor and mostly of interest to barracks/sea
lawyers. Whether it's a warrant or a commission doesn't matter nearly as
much as how well you lead...

Cubby,

Yeah I'm sure.


On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 06:36:36 -0500, Cub Driver
wrote:


I think it's a hoot that a navy *warrant* officer should be
commissioned, given that the whole point of the "warrant" was to
create an officer who wasn't commissioned.

The British navy used to have warrant officers, and probably devised
the system. Thus the OED: "an officer in certain armed services
(formerly also in the Navy) who holds office by a warrant, ranking
between a commissioned officer and an NCO."

Are you sure that what's on your wall is a commission and not a
warrant? Both are pieces of paper.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Thomas Schoene" wrote in message
ink.net...


This is a fairly recent change, but a Chief Warrant Officer is now
categorized as a "commissioned warrant officer," which is a class of
officer
distinct from both "warrant officer" and "commissioned officer."


Around 1867 the RN began rewarding its long-serving warrant officers with
commissions. The USN followed suit in the Naval Personnel Act of 1899 (the
same act that eliminated the rank of commodore and the Engineer Corps). The
grade was commissioned warrant officer, but the actual titles were "Chief
Boatswain," "Chief Gunner," "Chief Carpenter" and so on, and the "C's" for
"chief" and "commissioned" have become confused over the years. Since 1899,
USN commissioned warrant officers wore the regular officer's cap bade with
shield and eagle. The old WO cap device, plain crossed anchors, has
disappeared along with the "pin-striper" WO-1 rank.

The Marines adopted CWOs in the 1920s, the Army in WW2. I'm not sure about
the USCG. At some point after WW2, legislation officially replaced
"commissioned" with "chief" in the title.

--Justin

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...


I think it's a hoot that a navy *warrant* officer should be
commissioned, given that the whole point of the "warrant" was to
create an officer who wasn't commissioned.

The British navy used to have warrant officers, and probably devised
the system. Thus the OED: "an officer in certain armed services
(formerly also in the Navy) who holds office by a warrant, ranking
between a commissioned officer and an NCO."

Are you sure that what's on your wall is a commission and not a
warrant? Both are pieces of paper.


The grades W-2 and up are commissioned in all services.

US Code Title 10, Sec.571:
(b) Appointments in the grade of regular warrant officer, W-1, shall be
made by warrant by the Secretary concerned. Appointments in regular chief
warrant officer grades shall be made by commission by the President.

--Justin