General Patton on Lieutenant Kerry

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:57:00 -0500, Cub Driver
wrote:


When pressed about what happened to his medals, Kerry now says
the medals he threw away were not his and that his are displayed in his
Senate office.

I'm not sure this is entirely true. What I heard said in the campaign
here in New Hampshire is that Kerry's citations (that is, the words,
not the metal and cloth) are on display in his office. They could have
been destroyed and replaced many times (so could his medals, for that
matter).

all the best -- Dan Ford

Only partially true, Dan. I don't know if they still do it, but at the
time period in question, the presentation medal was engraved on the
back with the name of the recipient. Kerry's SSM would have his name
on the back of the star. Mine has mine, as does my first and second
DFC. The third through fifth aren't engraved. The AM basic is. MSM and
AFCM aren't. It varies.

The higher the award (and the SSM is third), the more likely it was
engraved for presentation.

Whether his medals or someone else's, the issue is not the ownership,
but the oath--to protect and defend. To obey the lawful orders.
Enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. These are phrases of meaning and relate
to a commissioned officer, who never unless stripped of the rank is
anything less, has an obligation to the President he serves and the
warriors still in the fray. To undermine the support for half a
million fighting men still in harm's way by leading protests against
the duly elected government of his country--that's the sin.

The handful of vets who have been gatherered for orchestrated events
in the primary season are going to be overwhelmed by thousands and
thousands of vocal vets who kept the trust and honored their
commitments. Clinton could protest as a student and civilian during
that period and reasonably defend those acts. Kerry as a commissioned
officer could not.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

I don't know if they still do it, but at the
time period in question, the presentation medal was engraved on the
back with the name of the recipient.

They don't do that anymore, at least for any of the awards I've received.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Steve Hix wrote:

In article ,
"cypher745" wrote:


|
George Smith Patton, Jr.
1856-1927
|
George Smith Patton III
[U.S. Army General]
-1945

Brooks, please note the the use of III.



Your elaborate family tree appears to need some editing:

From the beginning of http://www.generalpatton.com/biography.html

"BIOGRAPHY OF GENERAL GEORGE S. PATTON, JR.
One of the most complicated military men of all time, General George
Smith Patton, Jr. was born November 11, 1885 in San Gabriel, California."



Have a good day.



Heh.


Wow, San Gabriel! Same place I was born. I'm just not as famous. Hmm,
I have maybe another 40 years to work on that!

But as it later turned out, the medals Kerry threw were not his own.
Since that fact was revealed by the Wall Street Journal in 1984,

(Thanks for the posting.)

Interesting about the Wall Street Journal, since it was in the Journal
that I read this past week that Kerry tossed his own and those of two
others. But I suppose the more recent writer includes the ribbons
(which evidently he did discard).

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Kerry is no more a leader than Jane Fonda and hopefully this will become
apparent over the next 10 months.

I'm as anxious as you are to see how the campaign plays out. But I do
see a difference: Fonda took her protest to Hanoi, while Kerry took
his to Washington. There is a world of difference in that.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:17:53 -0500, Cub Driver
wrote:


Kerry is no more a leader than Jane Fonda and hopefully this will become
apparent over the next 10 months.

I'm as anxious as you are to see how the campaign plays out. But I do
see a difference: Fonda took her protest to Hanoi, while Kerry took
his to Washington. There is a world of difference in that.

all the best -- Dan Ford

Gosh, I never realized I has something in common with the bitch. I
went to Hanoi instead of Washington as well.

As I pointed out, the difference is that Kerry held a commission in
the service of his country. Sort of the legal difference we might draw
between Benedict Arnold and Tokyo Rose. One was an officer and one was
a citizen. Seems to me that there is some level of traitorous behavior
found in all four.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Whether his medals or someone else's, the issue is not the ownership,
but the oath--to protect and defend. To obey the lawful orders.
Enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. These are phrases of meaning and relate
to a commissioned officer, who never unless stripped of the rank is
anything less, has an obligation to the President he serves and the
warriors still in the fray. To undermine the support for half a
million fighting men still in harm's way by leading protests against
the duly elected government of his country--that's the sin.

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public
servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is
warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in
rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole.
Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell
the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame
him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude
in an American citizen is both base and servile.
To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to
stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should
be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the
truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."
Theodore Roosevelt
Kansas City "Star"
May 7, 1918

As I pointed out, the difference is that Kerry held a commission in
the service of his country. Sort of the legal difference we might draw
between Benedict Arnold and Tokyo Rose. One was an officer and one was
a citizen. Seems to me that there is some level of traitorous behavior
found in all four.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out during the campaign.
I don't have the bona fides to take a stand either way.

It's easy to understand how the vets in Kerry's campaign flocked to
him. I watched his New Hampshire victory speech on television. I
couldn't figure out what the guy in the ball cap was doing, standing
behind him to Kerry's left. Then I spotted what looked like an
American Legion cap, and I realized that they must be pushing vets
onstage.

I was thrilled, actually. It's going on forty years since I went to
Vietnam (as a civilian), and nearly that long since anyone has found
it worthwhile to exploit a Vietnam veteran for political gain. And
there were all the lefties (well, not the ones who were backing
*General* Clark) cheering! What a turnaround!

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

But it is even more important to tell the
truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."
Theodore Roosevelt
Kansas City "Star"
May 7, 1918

Easy for Teddy to say in 1918. I wonder what his opinion would have
been in, say, 1906?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Tom Cervo" wrote
Whether his medals or someone else's, the issue is not the ownership,
but the oath--to protect and defend. To obey the lawful orders.
Enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. These are phrases of meaning and relate
to a commissioned officer, who never unless stripped of the rank is
anything less, has an obligation to the President he serves and the
warriors still in the fray. To undermine the support for half a
million fighting men still in harm's way by leading protests against
the duly elected government of his country--that's the sin.

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public
servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is
warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in
rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole.
..snip..
Theodore Roosevelt
Kansas City "Star"
May 7, 1918

Wonderful quote Tom. I don't think Lt. Kerry was protesting the President
though. He was protesting the government, and our forces in battle. Having
done his time, he then banded with a bunch of long-haired scum, who did more
to our flag then any Arab or Persian setting it on fire abroad. He broke faith, and
now he wants to be known as a warrior again. Theodore would have shot him
on sight, and the public would have applauded "Bully!"