Is a 45 year old student pilot considered 'youth'?

On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 16:40:52 -0800, Sean F (F2) wrote:

Try this one!

http://youtu.be/EQw5AjrBjXE

Good stuff!

The USA desperately needs more youth pilots. I am starting to work on
this a bit and plan on putting some real effort in for the coming years.

I'd also suggest:

- the taster for the NZ GGP,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBLAyAfM8yE

- Down at the Seaside!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs666zqMw0s

- Winch launching at Karl Striedieck's Eagle Field
https://vimeo.com/51897500 - if there's also a YT version

- and the 'Smokin' video, which was made by some of the British Juniors
as (I think) a fund-raiser for the team. I think it was a DVD, but
there's a taster here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoZoLMDZ0cg
FWIW, the "2003 Gransden Regionals" section was shot on my club's field.



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On 2/23/2013 12:49 AM, GM wrote:
.. [winch] ...climb angles of 40deg+, .......

I used to say that too... and then I did the math. It's only your *deck
angle*, with respect to the horizon that is 40+ degrees. Assuming that
your launch height is about 1/3 of your cable length, that comes out to
an average climb angle of about 19 degrees, unfortunately.

Tony

On Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:57:46 PM UTC-7, Tony V wrote:
On 2/23/2013 12:49 AM, GM wrote:

.. [winch] ...climb angles of 40deg+, .......



I used to say that too... and then I did the math. It's only your *deck

angle*, with respect to the horizon that is 40+ degrees. Assuming that

your launch height is about 1/3 of your cable length, that comes out to

an average climb angle of about 19 degrees, unfortunately.



Tony

Tony, I assure you GM has done the math and his numbers are correct. With a rope tension equal to the glider's weight, the max climb angle will be 45 degrees - that's just how the math works out.

Old winches launching sub-30:1 gliders don't get this performance but the powerful new winches launching higher performance gliders do.

On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 02:42:25 +0000, Martin Gregorie wrote:

- and the 'Smokin' video, which was made by some of the British Juniors
as (I think) a fund-raiser for the team. I think it was a DVD, but
there's a taster here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoZoLMDZ0cg
FWIW, the "2003 Gransden Regionals" section was shot on my club's
field.

Following ones self up is bad form, I know, but I've been thinking slowly
today. Not only was part of Smokin' shot on my club's field, but I was
flying in that Regionals: two of us made a team entry in the club's Pegase
90. It was also our first go at racing and you can find my description of
the experience he

http://www.gregorie.org/gliding/2003...als/index.html


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Friday, February 22, 2013 7:39:56 AM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
What are the issues that keep soaring from training and retaining 'older youth'?



There's a lot of talk about recruiting 'youth' into soaring. Does RAS/SSA put 45+ y.o. students in the youth category? Who exactly are we trying to recruit?



Today's 45+ y.o.s are the ones who will be flying steadily for the next 25 years, say until 2038. Most of today's 20 year old pilots will quit flying by 30 (if not 25) due to money and the distractions of career, mortgage, and family. Some of them will start to fly again around 2038, when I'm worn out.



The issues:



1)Older youth are slower learners, so it is hard for a middle age pilot to get enough training and progress at an acceptable pace in the current system. It took me way too many seasons to get my rating. I saw a lot of other middle age students get discouraged and give up. Combination of bad weather, shortage of CFI-Gs, haphazard training, and my slow learning. It's highly improbable that I would persist to this point.



2)This is related to #1. The slow learning of older students puts a burden on volunteer CFI-Gs. The CFI-G gets tired of teaching that slower learner, the student picks up on that subliminally and quits. It is just taking too long and that CFI-G is understandably cranky about it. Worse case, the CFIG pushes the student to take the flight test before the student is really ready (and they pass). Getting the rating does not make you a good and safe pilot.



3)The shortage of modern club gliders. Okay. So I have my rating. Now how do I get my Silver Badge? Fortunate for me, I found a club that has a PW-6 and I can do some XC tandem flights with some expert older XC pilots, and being advanced in years, they like to have a backup pilot in the cockpit. It's fun. WIN WIN. And I have a decent glider to solo. The appeal of doing XC training in a 2-33 is absolute ZERO. Too uncomfortable. No 2-place modern club gliders? Time to quit and take up sailing.



Action Items:



1)Shorten the duration of the training period for middle age students. Train smarter. Be more systematic. Based on my student experience, glider training is haphazard. The reluctance of CFI-G to exploit Condor to speed up the initial phase of training baffles me. Old dogs, new trick maybe. I guess Condor is not so much fun for the CFI-G. So let's train CFI-Gs to use Condor as a tool. You can start to train on Condor in January and students will have a leg up once the snow melts.



2)Invest in more 2-place modern gliders. Most glider pilots have capital (or they would have taken up bird watching instead). If half of them would sign $2-3000 promissory notes, we could update the training fleet tomorrow. I mean... what do you earn on your CDs? .2%? My glider club pays me 3% on the promissory note that I signed and that helps finance our new glider, AND I get to fly a nice new glider! Huge ROI. Stop flapping the jaws and step up gentlemen! Clubs did this back in the day and bought the 2-33 fleet. Inflation adjusted, it is the same money. Why are the purse strings held tighter today? New Butterfly Vario or Promissory Note? Your choice.



Bonus Step:

Start launching with a winch. That will pull in, train and retain the 'young Youth' pilots. It will probably shorten the calendar duration of everyone's training because more flights will get launched on Saturday afternoon.

On Friday, February 22, 2013 3:32:08 PM UTC-7, Tony wrote:
On Friday, February 22, 2013 4:25:53 PM UTC-6, vontresc wrote:

"Sean F (F2)" wrote: In the US Soaring SSA years (dog years) this 44 year old pilot is about 16. ;-)! Sweet then as a 37year old can I apply for a Kolstad scholarship??? Pete (usually the youngest at a soaring event if Tony C isn't around)



you can apply all you want



actually reminds me of when our local then teenager John Bird submitted for his 100km Kolstad pin and the SSA office figured it was a joke since the 'other' John Bird who had been on the US team was *ahem* well over 26. A few phone calls and it was discovered that there was more than one John Bird in the SSA!

Is this the one at Penn State?

On Friday, February 22, 2013 5:34:59 PM UTC-7, Tony wrote:
On Friday, February 22, 2013 6:05:10 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:

On Friday, February 22, 2013 6:58:19 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:







I think the main point of this thread is that instead of focusing on attracting real youth, we should focus on the middle age crowd who can actually afford soaring and have the time to pursue it.







Both demographics are important. Today's youth will be 45 in 2038. The pattern of early exposure and mid-life adoption is well established.







Teaching basic skills to the young addresses the difficulty of teaching those skills to the middle aged. Plus line boys speed up the launch rate. They hustle.



yep, lots of my students have been out of flying for about 18-23 years. some had gotten their licenses in college, some had just taken a lesson or two, but many had done some flying in high school and college and then decided that a job, house, wife, and kids were more important, and were coming back to it after the house was paid off and the kids out of the house.

USAF helicopter pilot showed up at the club today while we were winch launching. He's been just up the road for seven years and just discovered us. We'll get him started, but he'll be in M-ASA country in August.

On Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:40:52 PM UTC-7, Sean F (F2) wrote:
Try this one!



http://youtu.be/EQw5AjrBjXE



The USA desperately needs more youth pilots. I am starting to work on this a bit and plan on putting some real effort in for the coming years.



Sean

psst, http://cadet.ssa.org

Yes the same one