Help needed re Mifflin wind turbines

On Monday, March 24, 2014 9:01:57 AM UTC-4, Tony wrote:
Welcome back Sean, missed you while you were at the Seniors

Can we bring Lennie the Lurker back?

So we are still trying to quantify/justify "green energy" wind turbine bird death as being acceptably small in number?

Yet the possibility of even disturbing a few spotted owls justified the dismantling of an entire logging industry. Where oh where is the EPA now?

Sorry birds. The liberals are more than happy (and deeply committed) to continue killing you horribly with their government subsidized death fans.

http://youtu.be/IO5LjgIEofg

http://youtu.be/CEersoJLtRw

http://youtu.be/-YJuFvjtM0s

The best one ever: http://youtu.be/7OQMBdcbMTc

Uhhhh... Whatever-the-hell-your-name-is: I believe the argument against
this wind farm is about gliders and ridge soaring.


"gotovkotzepkoi" wrote in
message ...

So comical is the "mind" of the mindless, liberal drone.
___________________

Hmmm....accused of being a "liberal drone"!! Now that hurts - NOT.
Anyway, the figures about bird deaths from wind turbines appear to be
highly inflated. Here is one of many sources:

http://tinyurl.com/2v72l2l

An excerpt from that link:

"Man-made structure/technology

Associated bird deaths per year (U.S.)

Feral and domestic cats - Hundreds of millions [source: AWEA]

Power lines-130 million -- 174 million [source: AWEA]

Windows (residential and commercial)-100 million -- 1 billion [source:
TreeHugger]

Pesticides-70 million [source: AWEA]

Automobiles-60 million -- 80 million [source: AWEA]

Lighted communication towers-40 million -- 50 million [source: AWEA]

Wind turbines-10,000 -- 40,000 [source: ABC]

Collisions with wind turbines account for about one-tenth of a percent
of all "unnatural" bird deaths in the United States each year. And of
all bird deaths, 30 percent are due to natural causes, like baby birds
falling from nests [source: AWEA]. So why the widespread misconception
that labels wind turbines "bird-o-matics"? I*t all starts with
California, raptors and the thousands of old turbines that make up the
Altamont Pass wind farm.

In this article, we'll find out where the statistics went wrong, how
thousands of birds do end up flying into wind turbines each year and
what's being done to reduce the number of bird-turbine collisions."

Now I can get just as teary eyed as the next guy when one of our avian
soaring buddies gets whacked by a blade. But to say that these things
are going to slice and dice raptors into oblivion is just not true.

The bottom line is that some people do not want these wind farms on the
ridges. The reality is that most people do not want them for aesthetic
reasons-they look like crap. I agree with that. But that's a hard
argument to make. Glider pilots have an even weaker argument in the
overall battle against turbines. There simply aren't enough ridge flying
glider pilots to make a difference. Your average person cannot give a
rat's a*s that you are inconvenienced in the practice of your elite,
rich mans sport.

I am in the "they look like crap" category. I'll never forget how
shocked I was a few years back when I drove across West Texas for the
first time in 30 years. There were turbines all over the place that
severely detracted from the magic of that sparsely populated landscape.
Then, the demise of Boone Pickens big dream stopped him from sticking
them on every nub of terrain in the rest of West Texas.

So, good luck defeating the wind farm initiative but I don't think the
trumped up bird argument carries enough weight to be taken seriously.




--
gotovkotzepkoi

On Monday, March 24, 2014 11:09:25 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
blah, blah, blah

Why don't you tone it down Sean?

I have a very hard time disassociating your boorish behaviour on RAS (on multiple topics) from the US National Sailplane Racing Team. I made a small financial contribution to the team last week, and honestly, based on the impression that you make on RAS, I hesitated to make it. I wince every time that I see/hear your name connected to sailplane racing.

Do you deliberately try to rub a lot of potential team supporters the wrong way? What is your point? It is not productive.

Other people associated with the team have made a very positive impression on me. It is not that hard to be at least neutral.

I am not on the US Soaring Team. So you donations are safe ;-)

Sean

On Monday, March 24, 2014 12:33:04 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Monday, March 24, 2014 11:09:25 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:

blah, blah, blah



Why don't you tone it down Sean?



I have a very hard time disassociating your boorish behaviour on RAS (on multiple topics) from the US National Sailplane Racing Team. I made a small financial contribution to the team last week, and honestly, based on the impression that you make on RAS, I hesitated to make it. I wince every time that I see/hear your name connected to sailplane racing.



Do you deliberately try to rub a lot of potential team supporters the wrong way? What is your point? It is not productive.



Other people associated with the team have made a very positive impression on me. It is not that hard to be at least neutral.

I am just the messenger ;-)

I am not a member of the US Soaring Team. I was invited to consider serving as a Team Captain, but had to turn it down as I could not take 4 weeks off this summer.

So, good news, your USST donations are safe ;-)

And, seriously, thanks for your donation. Tiff and I bought some pretty expensive polo shirts down in Florida last week. Good luck to all the team members!

Sean


On Monday, March 24, 2014 12:33:04 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Monday, March 24, 2014 11:09:25 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:

blah, blah, blah



Why don't you tone it down Sean?



I have a very hard time disassociating your boorish behaviour on RAS (on multiple topics) from the US National Sailplane Racing Team. I made a small financial contribution to the team last week, and honestly, based on the impression that you make on RAS, I hesitated to make it. I wince every time that I see/hear your name connected to sailplane racing.



Do you deliberately try to rub a lot of potential team supporters the wrong way? What is your point? It is not productive.



Other people associated with the team have made a very positive impression on me. It is not that hard to be at least neutral.

Dan, sometimes you have to go with the argument that can win the war.

A) Gliders not being able to fly on their ridges? Public (and especially govt bureaucrats) could care less.

B) Majestic Raptors (many endangered) along with all birds getting brutally killed en masse by Green Energy and clear liberal double standards? No we have something to fight with....

At minimum it drives the liberals crazy. And that ain't half bad...

;-)

On Monday, March 24, 2014 11:57:22 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Uhhhh... Whatever-the-hell-your-name-is: I believe the argument against

this wind farm is about gliders and ridge soaring.





"gotovkotzepkoi" wrote in

message ...



So comical is the "mind" of the mindless, liberal drone.

___________________



Hmmm....accused of being a "liberal drone"!! Now that hurts - NOT.

Anyway, the figures about bird deaths from wind turbines appear to be

highly inflated. Here is one of many sources:



http://tinyurl.com/2v72l2l



An excerpt from that link:



"Man-made structure/technology



Associated bird deaths per year (U.S.)



Feral and domestic cats - Hundreds of millions [source: AWEA]



Power lines-130 million -- 174 million [source: AWEA]



Windows (residential and commercial)-100 million -- 1 billion [source:

TreeHugger]



Pesticides-70 million [source: AWEA]



Automobiles-60 million -- 80 million [source: AWEA]



Lighted communication towers-40 million -- 50 million [source: AWEA]



Wind turbines-10,000 -- 40,000 [source: ABC]



Collisions with wind turbines account for about one-tenth of a percent

of all "unnatural" bird deaths in the United States each year. And of

all bird deaths, 30 percent are due to natural causes, like baby birds

falling from nests [source: AWEA]. So why the widespread misconception

that labels wind turbines "bird-o-matics"? I*t all starts with

California, raptors and the thousands of old turbines that make up the

Altamont Pass wind farm.



In this article, we'll find out where the statistics went wrong, how

thousands of birds do end up flying into wind turbines each year and

what's being done to reduce the number of bird-turbine collisions."



Now I can get just as teary eyed as the next guy when one of our avian

soaring buddies gets whacked by a blade. But to say that these things

are going to slice and dice raptors into oblivion is just not true.



The bottom line is that some people do not want these wind farms on the

ridges. The reality is that most people do not want them for aesthetic

reasons-they look like crap. I agree with that. But that's a hard

argument to make. Glider pilots have an even weaker argument in the

overall battle against turbines. There simply aren't enough ridge flying

glider pilots to make a difference. Your average person cannot give a

rat's a*s that you are inconvenienced in the practice of your elite,

rich mans sport.



I am in the "they look like crap" category. I'll never forget how

shocked I was a few years back when I drove across West Texas for the

first time in 30 years. There were turbines all over the place that

severely detracted from the magic of that sparsely populated landscape.

Then, the demise of Boone Pickens big dream stopped him from sticking

them on every nub of terrain in the rest of West Texas.



So, good luck defeating the wind farm initiative but I don't think the

trumped up bird argument carries enough weight to be taken seriously.









--

gotovkotzepkoi

This currently a valid style of arguing. It uses the "Liberal Emotionalism" of arguing based on how it "feels"... Does killing birds to make power make you feel good?. Death and dismemberment pictures along with statistics (validity is immaterial, because it comes from a website, so they must be true, but only Sean's)It uses "Green" tactics against "Green Energy".... At least you can thermal from a coal or Frame gas generator stack....

@ Sean: Have you contacted PETA? They need to get in on this action... ;o)

Very few people see the validity or benefit of soaring, more people will identify with the killing of birds. The soaring public would benefit without the wind farm, but realistically, those merits fail on their own.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend...



On Monday, March 24, 2014 11:41:22 AM UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
Dan, sometimes you have to go with the argument that can win the war.



A) Gliders not being able to fly on their ridges? Public (and especially govt bureaucrats) could care less.



B) Majestic Raptors (many endangered) along with all birds getting brutally killed en masse by Green Energy and clear liberal double standards? No we have something to fight with....



At minimum it drives the liberals crazy. And that ain't half bad...



;-)

PETA, I'll pass. Those kids are crazy :-)

OK boys, good luck stopping the liberals and their construction of bird blending windmills on your favorite soaring ridges. I strongly suggest raising your tempo. Your dealing with crazed liberals. They only way to defeat them is to beat them at their own games. Sickening, but the reality of the world we now live in.

Sean

AGREED! That's the "Far Side", just before the ecco-terrorist organizations like ALF.

Enjoyed reading your research.

On Monday, March 24, 2014 2:58:32 PM UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
PETA, I'll pass. Those kids are crazy :-)