Bush flew fighter jets, but never over VIETNAM.

Subject: Bush flew fighter jets, but never over VIETNAM.
From: "ian maclure"
Date: 7/13/2004 2:58 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 16:47:57 +0000, ArtKramr wrote:

[snip]

Yeah. We ought to get back to military aviation.

OK.
I can't imagine our friends in the Soviet Air Force were all that
happy about you folks swanning around their area of influence
taking pictures and to put it mildly they were not ones for observing
proprieties when they felt their interests needed protecting.
Did they ever try to seriously interfere with the effrot?

IBM


Nope. Never saw a Russian plane in the aior even once. I give thanks for little
favors.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:27:30 +0000, ArtKramr wrote:

[snip]

Nope. Never saw a Russian plane in the aior even once. I give thanks for little
favors.

Odd. Of course it might have been they hadn't decided how
dog in the manger they wanted to be at that point.

IBM

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On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:16:42 -0700, Fred the Red Shirt wrote:

[snip]


I think it matters a bit that we were attacked by Saudi Arabians,
led by a Saudi Arabian exiled to Afghanistan and he wants to fight
Iraq.

By that logic we ought to have attacked Austria before
dealing with Germany "because he vas Austrian you know"

In case you hadn't noticed the Jihadis and Islamists
come in any number of hues and complexions.

The only attractive feature your theory has is that it
buttresses my contention we ought to nuke Marin County.

Let's elect a President with a better grasp of geography.

We elected a President whose grasp of the strategic situation
means we aren't hunkered down by the rat holes those jihadi
clowns would have bolted down had we not acted as it played
out. Iraq was unfinished business. Prior to 9/11 we just gritted
our teeth and carried on. After 9/11 the situation was vastly
different and Iraq as it was could no longer be tolerated.
And speaking of Jihadi scum....
Another one surrendered today. Sounds like progress to me.

And while we're at it, no more oil barons in the White House.

Better an oil baron than a pot-smokin, prevaricatin',
philanderin', draft-dogin', swindlin', sexually harrassin'
shyster and his psycho killer shrew of a wife.

No more chicken-hawks in the Pentagon.

Why not, seems to me they are doing a reasonable job.
And besides it annoys the Dumbocreeps.

IBM

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Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
Dweezil Dwarftosser wrote in message ...
....

The smart guys filled in all the blocks with countries to which
they couldn't be assigned... they had volunteered, but not been
selected for any location in the world.


How woud it come about that a person couldn't be assigned to some
particular country?


There are many countries to which there are no military personnel of
certain specialties assigned- e.g. no US Army M113 maintenance
specialists assigned to the American Embassy in China (but which you
COULD list on your preference form). If your specialty wasn't posted
to a specific country, then listing that country was in essence
volunteering to not go there, and there are typically enough "not there"
places to volunteer to go so as to not leave any slots open (which,
under the system, would essentially be an "I just want to go whereever
you think I should" entry). Besides, if they did somehow come up with
a slot for your specialty in that country, you likely did your homework
and picked a country that you figured you might actually want to be
stationed in...

Mike Williamson
USAF

From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 7/13/2004 9:13 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: et


"B2431" wrote in message
...

Not to be difficult, but the T-39 Sabreliner was made by Rockwell.



North American Aviation, Inc., merged with Rockwell Standard Corporation and
became North American Rockwell Corporation in September 1967. I believe
North American had completed production of the T-39 series by that time.

I stand corrected. For some reason I was thinking there was a Rockwell logo on
the horn button. Now I'm not sure.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Bush recalls that toward the end of his training, he
volunteered for the "Palace Alert" program

Contemporary proof, please.

Proof of what, exactly? You miss the point entirely.

The -point- is that someone said Bush volunteered for overseas service.

I'd be glad of some proof of that.

Walt

"WalterM140" wrote

The -point- is

The point is, Bush is the President, has been for close to 4 years, and
no one except you gives a **** about what happened when he was 19,
just as we don't care about anyone who is 19, unless they have something
interesting to say about aviation, or an aviation experience. Since you've
never been in the military, and have never been a pilot, crewmember, or
crew chief, I don't see what point you could have that is anywhere close
to being interesting.

The point is that someone said that Bush volunteered for Viet Nam, but
there is a document extant that shows he -did-not- volunteer for
overseas assignment at one point.

Rather than claiming you have a list of those who didn't volunteer
for Vietnam,


I never claimed that. I asked for the person who said Bush volunteered for
Viet Nam to prove it.

Maybe he did, but no one has shown any reasonable proof of it.

Walt

The point is that someone said that Bush volunteered for Viet Nam,
but there is
a document extant that shows he -did-not- volunteer for overseas
assignment at
one point.


Why is that a point worth debating?

It seems to be a false statement.

The part about not volunteering certainly is.

Bush apparently did not volunteer for Viet Nam. Someone here said he did.

You seem to think that he was under some obligation to transfer
to the regular Air Force ASAP. No such obligation existed.


Not at all. And joining the Air Guard and flying F-102's would have been a
perfectly acceptable way to serve.

The problem with Bush's service is that there is strong circumstantial evidence
that he didn't participate for the last two years of his service.

I got an e-mail from the guy doing the research on Awolbush.com.

I was wrong about the one document that shows no entry between 26 May '72 and 1
Oct 73. Although it looks identical to documents in the Marine Corps, it did
not serve the same function. It's an AF form 11. Reserve points were not
shown. Further, that form was no longer used after 1 May, 73.

The new link on www.awolbush.com has strong circumstantial evidence that Bush
actually -was- declared a deserter and that the documentation that should have
followed from that has been destroyed, as has been the paperwork on the
mandatory inquiry on Bush's grounding.

Surely some of the former Air Force pilots who post here are wondering about
this.

What little I know indcates that most pilots will do about anything to keep
flying and stay current in their aircraft. This didn't seem to be a factor for
Bush.

When you think that Bush is an untreated alcohlic even now, it's not much of a
stretch to think he found cocaine more alluring that flying back in 1972.

Walt

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:30:04 +0000, WalterM140 wrote:

[snip]

Not at all. And joining the Air Guard and flying F-102's would have been a
perfectly acceptable way to serve.

Which is what happened.

The problem with Bush's service is that there is strong circumstantial evidence
that he didn't participate for the last two years of his service.

Look we've told you before. Some whacko channeling Ho Chi Minh is not a
relaible source.

I got an e-mail from the guy doing the research on Awolbush.com.

Now there's an unbiased source.

I was wrong about the one document that shows no entry between 26 May '72 and 1
Oct 73. Although it looks identical to documents in the Marine Corps, it did
not serve the same function. It's an AF form 11. Reserve points were not
shown. Further, that form was no longer used after 1 May, 73.

Earth to Walt, D'uh!

The new link on www.awolbush.com has strong circumstantial evidence that Bush
actually -was- declared a deserter and that the documentation that should have

Gee, what a surprise. I guess you have to come up with new garbage
since the previous stuff is well past its use by date.

followed from that has been destroyed, as has been the paperwork on the
mandatory inquiry on Bush's grounding.

Oh really. Proof that this fictitious deocumentation of a fictitious
requirement actually existed?

Surely some of the former Air Force pilots who post here are wondering about
this.

Guys?

What little I know indcates that most pilots will do about anything to keep
flying and stay current in their aircraft. This didn't seem to be a factor for
Bush.

Depends. I have an elderly relative who was a C-54 driver in WWII.
Flew all over the Pacific including into disputed airstrips. Lost
a copilot to a Japanese fighter attack ( one of two he endured )
and had 20 feet or so of the top of his airplane blown off by
artillery while on the ground. When, he stepped off the airplane
for the last time in 1947 ( he was pilot for the US UN delegation
post war ) he never again flew under his own steam. I expect he
wasn't the only one who did this.

When you think that Bush is an untreated alcohlic even now, it's not much of a
stretch to think he found cocaine more alluring that flying back in 1972.

Now why would I think that?
Are you projecting?

IBM

Walt


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