Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.

"Howard Berkowitz" wrote

I have some mental pictures involved, of an ammunition ship, carrying
bombs to the ETO from an American factory, catching a torpedo.

Yea, but what about the ones that made it?

In article b%cXc.14367$ni.12227@okepread01, "Bob Coe"
wrote:

"Howard Berkowitz" wrote

I have some mental pictures involved, of an ammunition ship, carrying
bombs to the ETO from an American factory, catching a torpedo.

Yea, but what about the ones that made it?



Those survivors accounted for the bombs that were loaded aboard Art's
plane.

Again, I'll ask about the overall wartime contribution of someone
clearly not on the pointy end, Constance Babington-Smith. If her name is
unfamiliar, that should be corrected. Or on the very very pointy end,
Noor Inayat Khan or Virgina Hall or Sydney Cotton. Or back at the
ranch, Kelly Johnsom and Barnes Wallis.

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: Howard Berkowitz
Date: 8/25/2004 6:28 PM Pacific Standard Time

I think you are missing my point. Did your _flight_ crews select the
target and the munitions to be used? I think not. There were targeting
organizations that had to call on specialized skills, ranging from
vulnerability analysis to detailed photointerpretation to statistical
analysis of weapons effects. Yes, you were at the pointy end, but the
spear also has a staff.


How does any of that limit or make my combat observations less valid? In
the
end the guys you are talking about did the easy work in an office. We did
the
hard work as you put it on the pointy end of the spear.
And none of those guys you are refering to ever went down in flames or
were
buried in foreign graves. Screw 'em all with their easy comfortable
sheltered
lives and total
safety. While they were enjoying Martinis in London we were catching hell
over
Germany and many of us never came back. Screw 'em all.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


None of what has been posted makes your personal observations any less
valid. However, you were just one small cog in a huge machine. Your
evidence is one piece of the jigsaw puzzle but it's not the only piece and
it's certainly not the most important piece.

I respect the opinion of someone who has studied the subject in depth over
many years every bit as much, if not more, than that of someone who took
part at a very low level. I wouldn't admire him as a warrior but he
probably has more to offer than the average warrior. There's only so many
times I can read 'and then we were hit by 30 Fockewulfs and went down in
flames...'.

ArtKramr wrote:
Robert Briggs wrote:
Mike Dargan wrote:

If you're trying to wreck fresh bomb craters, the tighter the better.

Nicely put, Mike.

Is that that the result of the many missions you flew and your experience
with formation variations and the effect on bomb patterns? BTW, how many
missions did you fly? Could you give us details?

See Message-ID:

ArtKramr wrote:
Mike wrote:

Art, have you never heard of research?

Your individual experience is limited.... one man's view of what happened.

And you both have it all wrong. I did my research at 10,000 feet over the
Ruhr valley.

Let's see, now. I've read a book by a man who did his research at
sixty (60) feet over the Ruhr valley and wrote about it within a
year or so.

Do I believe him? Or some old codger on Usenet whose view of things
was more than two orders of magnitude worse and who is writing about
it six decades later?

Then, of course, there is a book by a man who was probably the Royal
Air Force's top man in weapon delivery ...

Howard Berkowitz wrote:

Those survivors accounted for the bombs that were loaded aboard Art's
plane.

Again, I'll ask about the overall wartime contribution of someone
clearly not on the pointy end, Constance Babington-Smith. If her name
is unfamiliar, that should be corrected. Or on the very very pointy
end, Noor Inayat Khan or Virgina Hall or Sydney Cotton. Or back at
the ranch, Kelly Johnsom and Barnes Wallis.

And I *do* wonder how much chance Art would have stood without, for
example, the erks who maintained those noisy fan thingies hanging
from Willie's wings ...

Subject: the moron, was Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the
ground.
From: Robert Briggs UCKET
Date: 8/26/2004 10:28 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Howard Berkowitz wrote:

Those survivors accounted for the bombs that were loaded aboard Art's
plane.

Again, I'll ask about the overall wartime contribution of someone
clearly not on the pointy end, Constance Babington-Smith. If her name
is unfamiliar, that should be corrected. Or on the very very pointy
end, Noor Inayat Khan or Virgina Hall or Sydney Cotton. Or back at
the ranch, Kelly Johnsom and Barnes Wallis.

And I *do* wonder how much chance Art would have stood without, for
example, the erks who maintained those noisy fan thingies hanging
from Willie's wings ...


I love the guys that maintained the noisy fan thingies that hung from Willies
wings.
But we went to war. They didn'lt. They were all great, everyone of them. We
couldn't have done without them. But they were not of the band of brothers.
Band of Brothers in the original Henry V context as well as the 101st AB meant
those who fought the enemy. No one else is included.
And that means you.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: Robert Briggs Trebor.Briggs@BITphysic

Then, of course, there is a book by a man who was probably the Royal
Air Force's top man in weapon delivery ...

Probably???? could you please be a bit more vague in your totally vague
message.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

ArtKramr wrote:
Robert Briggs wrote:

Then, of course, there is a book by a man who was probably the
Royal Air Force's top man in weapon delivery ...

Probably???? could you please be a bit more vague in your totally
vague message.

If anyone in the RAF knew more about the topic than the late AVM
Don Bennett there's a fair chance he worked rather closely with
Bennett.

Subject: Fly tight for tight bomb patterns on the ground.
From: Robert Briggs UCKET
Date: 8/26/2004 11:30 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr wrote:
Robert Briggs wrote:

Then, of course, there is a book by a man who was probably the
Royal Air Force's top man in weapon delivery ...

Probably???? could you please be a bit more vague in your totally
vague message.

If anyone in the RAF knew more about the topic than the late AVM
Don Bennett there's a fair chance he worked rather closely with
Bennett.



"A fair chance".? You are a master of uncertainty


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer