A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

The aerodynamics of a towplane in a kiting glider situation



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #19  
Old May 20th 20, 01:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 88
Default The aerodynamics of a towplane in a kiting glider situation

On Monday, May 18, 2020 at 9:21:09 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I also have to mention that getting any auto-release device approved by the FAA is the "elephant in the room" that nobody so far on this thread has considered. When Walt Connelly proposed banning Schweizer releases, I mentioned that there are some tow planes that are ONLY allowed to use Schweizer releases, and converting to a Tost system could (and would) require a lot of agonizing bureaucratic adventures with the FAA to get an STC or field approval to change the "approved" release to another "untested" installation.

I can only imagine the testing and documentation required to get an automatic release certified and approved. At best, the FAA is like a supertanker on course, and you are the guy in font of them in the rowboat furiously waving your handkerchief to make them turn. The Captain may see you and order an avoidance maneuver, but it's going to take a LOOOOONG time for the course to deviate one tiny little bit. Sort of like booting the rudder in a Grob 103.

Go ahead. Flame suit on.


First of all, I am not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV. Just some interesting questions I have asked and as a result have become more confused, but that's lawyers for you.

Interesting that you mentioned dealing with the FAA over an "approved" release and in this case the Schweizer system. So, the FAA has approved this system and this system only for certain aircraft, I'm curious as to what aircraft those might be, not that this is really important. What is important is the concept under the law of "knew or should have known." The FAA had to know (unless the FAA has been living under a rock) that the "approved" system has failed miserably just when it is needed the most resulting in the death of tow pilots in the past.
And what "untested' installation do you mean? The TOST system has been tested thoroughly and although any system can fail the consensus is that the TOST system is superior to the Schweizer. Prove me wrong.

The "Federal Tort Claims Act" allows for legal action being taken against Federal agencies in the event of situations such as this, knew or known or negligence. The old rule that you can't sue the Sovereign (government) no longer applies in all cases. Plenty of suits against VA doctors and other successful legal actions I am told. While these are rare events if a family with standing gets the right legal team going after the major league DEEP POCKET, (the GUBMENT) then things might change. Then again, maybe not. Lawyers only go after cases where they believe they can win and secure a large judgement, a nice percentage of which goes in their pocket.

Additionally I was previously told that Soaring is a sport and that the tow pilot is essentially engaging in the sport and therefore assumes a degree of risk. Perhaps, perhaps not I am informed by another "legal mind" who actually is a pilot. The sport arguably doesn't begin until the gate opens for the "race." Therefore it might be argued that the tow pilot is not a competitor and therefore not engaged in the sport in either towing for a competition or simply launching a glider. (ask four lawyers a question and get 6 different answers) If in the case of the tow pilot in California the family has "standing" meaning that they depend on him for their livelihood they might well have a reasonable chance of prevailing in a law suit. (let that be a lesson to you commercial operators and clubs, only have tow pilots without wives, children, families depending on them or you could lose you ass) The glider pilot in this case was an instructor as we have been informed, someone who "Knew or Should Have Known" that his actions might imperil the tow pilot. In this case the pilot failed to take proper care in doing something resulting in death. No one believes for a moment this was purposeful on his part, but the right lawyer can sue the sun for going down and the tide for going out and prevail.

The real problem is the safety culture of the community as a whole. Until commercial operators and clubs take it upon themselves to recognize failed systems and correct them these things will continue to happen. You can talk about training until hell freezes over but when a human makes an error the tow pilot still has every right to the best reasonable escape mechanism, not one that is proven to have failed when needed the most. People still still make mistakes, nothing will ever make flying or towing completely safe but actions, not words are what makes thing safER. Take action my friends, the life you save may be the tow pilot.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
KGARS - Kiting Glider Automatic Relase System Wit Wisniewski Soaring 2 May 19th 20 01:04 AM
KGARS - Kiting Glider Automatic Relase System AS Soaring 0 May 15th 20 02:46 PM
Glider - Towplane Signals Mike the Strike Soaring 24 March 26th 05 09:33 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2025 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.