Ice meteors, climate, sceptics

Eric Hocking wrote:
[note sci.geo.meteorology dropped from followups as requested]

We can go back there and report the results later.

"Brian Sandle" wrote in message
...
Eric Hocking wrote:

Fine - put forward another explanation for the correlation between
lifting footpath bans and the late 2001 appearance of circles in
British crops.

You were saying late 2001, then more recently, see below you are
saying it was happening as they cam open in May.


(b) to check the data.

Ah, let's just do that shall we?

(a) About 90% of the walkways were open in September 1991 in Britain.

Since I specifically stated 2001, what has this to do with my post?

I meant 2001. It was in an offical PDF file which I cannot find again,
with
the history of F&MD.

OK - so *most* of the rights of way were open by Sept 2001, this still has
nothing to do with my statement that there is a correlation between lack of
circle building while the blanket bans were in effect, does it? Further I
pointed out ath there is a correlation between the staged openings of rights
of way, county by county, and the appearance of the first circles in 2001 in
those counties corresponding with those openings.

Where is the data?


But I am pointing out it could be world wide.

A point that is quite irrelevant to the discussion though. Blanket bans on
countryside rights of way were only in place in Britain due to FMD in 2001.
What influence would these bans have on walking in a field in Canada or New
Zealand?

Exactly my point. Though NZ is southern hemisphere, the circles
start appearing across nothern hemisphere in May in it was pretty
much the same in 2001 as 2000 or 2002.

The fact remains that the first cropcircles to appear in BRITAIN, were
found and probably created (as per the cropcircle database site) in
late/end of May. Just as the FMD footpath restrictions were being
eased.

It had been a wet season and crops got started late, so so did
circles.

Search your database for any country April 2001, there is only one result,
and that is an acknowledged art work.

And this has what to do with my statement about the timing of crop circles
appearing in May in areas where blanket bans on access to rights of way were
being eased?

Some might have been arranged by farmers for extra income after the
F&M trouble.

They started appearing world over in May.

As they do each year - but in Britain and specifically England (ie as per my
initial point) they did not appear in fields that had blanket bans on
access. They only started to appear after these bans were lifted. At least
address the point I am making rather than going off on irrelevant tangents.

Data please.

That is correlation not proven causation.

Give reasonable alternatives to my point then. What caused the different
timing and distribution of circle building in 2001?

Wet season.

The correlation between
the appearance of circles, county by county, and the lifting of blanket bans
in those counties, while quite a coincidence, is certainly a compelling
coincidence. Have you compared the timing and distribution of circles in
2001 when the bans were in place and those in 2000 and 2002 when no
countryside movement bans were in place?

Here are the data of circles, with the 13 May Hampshire one still in
F&M territory. You give the F&M clearance dates for the UK places

May 1 2000 Germany 2002 Germany
May6 2001 Netherlands, 2002 UK-Wiltshire
May 11 2000 Canada
May 13 2001 Germany, UK-Hampshire (still F&M territory)
May 14 2000 Germany Italy Malaysia UK-Kent UK-Wiltshire
May 15 2000 UK-Leicestershire
May 17 2000 Germany 2001 Canada
May 20 2000 Germany UK-Hampshire UK-Avon UK-Wiltshire 2002 Germany
May 22 2000 USA 2001 Italy UK-Dorset USA
May 24 2000 Germany 2001 Germany
May 25 2000 Germany x3 2001 Germany UK-Wiltshire
May 26 2002 Germany
May 27 2000 UK-Hampshire
May 29 2001 UK-Wiltshire UK-Hertsforshire 2002 Canada
May 30 2000 UK-Wiltshire 2001 UK-Wiltshire x2 Yugoslavia 2003 Canada
May 31 2000 UK-Avon UK-Wilthsire 2001 UK-Wiltshire x2

plus in 2000 one in UK-Hampshire on an unknown date.


This as per
the cropcircle database site:

http://www.cropcircleresearch.com/cg...K&l=&k=&m=Apri
l
There was nothing to stop croppies flying over at 1500ft plus scouring
for circles.

Maybe they misunderstood.

Maybe, regardless, their statement that they were not able to fly over
fields to look for circles is untrue. To imply that this is a reasonable
explanation for the lateness of sightings in 2001 holds much less water than
my statement that there were not cirlces being made because the people on
the *ground* who make the circles were banned from entering fields during
that time.

I don't think there is much statistical difference between the
years, even now I have mentioned weather.

So to claim that there *might* have been circles created before May is
moot, since they can't prove it happened and I can't prove it didn't.

You like the correlation, and searching world wide back to Nov 2000 there
are
very few. Just a couple on ice, one reported on ice too thin to walk on.

What's with these irrelevant tangents? I'm not talking about worldwide, I'm
talking about the timing and distribution of circle building in England 2001
and what affect the FMD countryside ban had on it.

They seem to occur all around the world on the same days, sometimes.

May 14, 15 2000 there were 6, then only one till May 20 when another
4 showed world-wide. May 24-25 4

Somewhere I read it is admitted that some farmers create them as they get
grants for people to come on to their land.

Then you were misled.
Farmers do not receive grants for people coming onto their land. Who would
be giving out these grants by the way?

Perhaps it is stewardship grants for farmers farming in national
parks. More visitors more money?

Farmers can claim some insurance for vandalism, it does not cover the cost
of the lost crop. Anecdotally, I have heard that circle builders have
offered some cash compensation at times, but the farmers lose more in
damaged crop than they make up in these nonexistent grants.
About all they can do is ask for an "entry fee" from people who want to
access their fields to view a circle.

Which they would need after F&M, Though from 20th May 2000 till end
of May there were 7 or 8 in UK and in 2001 from 22 May till end 8.


Then the scientific tests should be different.

What tests are these? Why should they be different? And what has that got
to do with the farmer anecdote above?

Some look for haematite attracted by magnetic effects. Othe search
for Nitric Oxide formed by extremely short duration electric fields.
Some look for changes in cellular structure.