when does a "remain clear" instruction end?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news

"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message
...


As I commented, I don't see specific phrase in the AIM for the
controller to use for clearing an aircraft into the Class C after being
told to stand clear - and it might be a good idea...


Specific phrases for controller usage are found in FAA Order 7110.65, but
there is no phrase like "cancel your last instruction and now comply with
this instruction", nor should there be. Previous instructions are simply
overridden by subsequent instructions. For example, an aircraft may have
been instructed to "fly heading 360", and a bit later is instructed to
"turn
right heading 020". The 360 heading isn't cancelled prior to the issuance
of the 020 heading, the 360 heading is simply overridden by the 020
heading.




So, on the first call the pilot was told, "Aircraft calling remain clear
of Charlie?, or "November 1234 remain clear of Class Charlie.",
or words to that effect... Fine, we all agree he is to remain clear...
Now the controller calls a bit later and says something to the effect,
"November 1234, radar contact 8 miles east of xyz, altimeter 30
point 00", or some variation and shuts up - because he has
established radio contact which is 'the clearance to enter'...


Wrong. Radio contact was established when the controller said, "November
1234 remain clear of Class Charlie."



So, I asked both, wouldn't you tell the pilot that he is now 'cleared to
enter the C', to avoid confusion.. They both replied that there is no
confusion... The clearance to enter a Class C airspace is establishing
radio contact using the tail number exactly as spelled out in the AIM..


Yes, if nothing else is said that is correct. But in this case the
aircraft
was instructed to remain clear of Class C airspace and that instruction
remains in effect until some instruction is issued that permits entry.



Steven, just as you said that the previous instructions would not be
explicitly cancelled, so too is the "remain clear." Using the tail number -
especially with the phrase "radar contact" - definitely makes it for me. I
would enter the Class C.

I would expect the following phrases to keep me clear of the Class C - 1)
"aircraft calling NE of class C, where did you say you wanted to go?" or 2)
Cessna 1234, continue to remain clear of the class C airspace. What are your
intentions?"

I would find this one confusing "Cessna 1234, where did you say you wanted
to go?" It uses the tail number which is enough but indicates that the
controller is still trying to figure out what to do with me. I would
question whether that establishes radio contact to enter the Class C.

The point should be that this isn't a game to try to fool the controller
into saying something that unknowingly grants permission. When in doubt,
double check.

-------------------------------
Travis