when does a "remain clear" instruction end?

Howdy!

In article .net,
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Michael Houghton" wrote in message
...

...and once again with "November 1234, radar contact..." Where, in that
"radar contact" communication, does the controller say "remain clear..."?


Nowhere. Where in that "radar contact" communication does the controller
say anything that overrides the instruction to "remain clear of Class
Charlie"?

Where in that "radar contact" communication is an instruction to "remain clear"?
No instruction means authorization to enter.

If N1234 was to remain clear, the controller needed to say so.


The controller DID say so, what do you think "November 1234 remain clear of
Class Charlie" means?

The pilot in question did remain clear until authorized by a subsequent
communication that did not instruct him to remain clear.

If the "remain clear" instruction was to remain in place, what
approved phraseology would the controller then use to remove
the restriction?

Where do you people get this idea that ATC instructions last only until the
next exchange of communications, whatever that exchange may be?

Because, in the case of entering Class C or Class D airspace, the "remain
clear" instruction is not very durable in the face of continuing two-way
radio communication. If ATC wants the airplane to stay out, they can either
refuse to communicate or issue the instruction to "remain clear". Failing
that, they authorize entry. Where do you get the idea that "remain clear"
persists so?

For the third or fourth time now, the controller would have to issue an
instruction that permitted or required entry into Class C airspace.
Examples are, "proceed on course", "fly heading XXX, vector for sequencing",
enter right base for runway XX", etc.

"November 1234, radar contact" also suffices.

You keep insinuating that there must be some magic phrase, but
you don't tell us what it is.


I never said or implied that there was any specific "magic phrase".

You keep insting that "remain clear" continues in force despite subsequent
two-way radio communication, yet you offer no documentary support for
that claim.

Consider the following scenario.

You take off outside the Class C and would like to transit it. You are
instructed to remain clear. You circumnavigate it, reach your destination,
and return without landing. You again approach the Class C with the
desire to transit rather than go around. You call up ATC again and they
reply with your tail number but no instructions. Can you go in or not?
I'm positing on the order of an hour or more elapsing between the two
attempts to transit.

And what would that instruction be, if "November 1234, radar contact..."
were not sufficient (as clearly laid out in the AIM)? Pray enlighten us.

Where does the AIM say that "radar contact" allows an aircraft to enter
Class C airspace that had established radio communications and been
instructed to remain outside of it? Pray, enlighten me.

It's not the "radar contact" part, it's the "November 1234" part, in the
absence of specific instructions in the communication.

yours,
Michael


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