when does a "remain clear" instruction end?

Howdy!

In article .net,
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Michael Houghton" wrote in message
...
[snip]

Neither. You present a false dilemma, ignoring several better
responses.


Like what?


If it's quiet, the controller could possibly give a friendly
quick reminder that you don't do clearances.


That's the second choice I listed.

No. You posited a lengthy lecture/dissertation that tied up a busy
comm channel. Naturally, you were trying to post a patently absurd
choice, to make your other option look good. Logical fallacy. Bad
rhetoric. No biscuit.



In any case, "November 1234, come on down" would avoid giving
a clearance where one cannot, but would establish communications
authorizing entry. Yeah, it's probably not in the official
phrasebook, but it doesn't say things it shouldn't.


"Come on down"? That may be in the official "Price is Right" phrasebook, it
doesn't mean anything in ATC.

....neither does "cleared into the Class C airspace", and it has the
benefit of not conveying formal meaning it shouldn't, unlike a
clearance.

If you were to "clear" someone into Class C airspace, what
sort of clearance would you give? Please be explicit, and
explain how it would be a valid clearance.

Waco 9876Z calls approach: "Podunk approach, Waco 9876Z 15 west, request
clearance through Class C airspace". ATC responds; "Waco 9876Z, squawk
0340, cleared through Podunk Class C airspace, Podunk altimeter 29.96."

Yes, I know, there are no clearances for VFR aircraft through Class C
airspace. Nobody knows that better than I do. But I'm not going to argue
with the pilot, if he insists on a "clearance" I give him a "clearance".

You don't bother explaining how this is a valid clearance. Podunk
approach only needs to say "Waco 9876Z, roger." If Waco 9876Z can't figure
out what to do, he can ask. He might even learn something. Just issuing
a bogus clearance only perpetuates that ignorance.

yours,
Michael

--
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
| White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/