Puchaz Spinning thread that might be of interest in light of the recent accident.

John Shelton wrote:
Gee. This looks like a nice place to misbehave:

So, while ignorance is bliss, training is the only way to improve ones
chances of completing a flight safely.

While insurance companies do not want helicopter trainees to practice full
autorotations, your only chance for walking without a cane is knowing how to
do one when you need to. So, the first time you do one is the first time you
need to. Not very smart.

If the training is killing people, then maybe the training procedures need
tweaking. But canceling training is a very bad idea. In the end, the Air

I guess my question is how many is enough? Teaching a spin and recovery
once? Teaching it 10 times? Teaching it 100 times?

Or is it sufficient to simply teach spin avoidance? What causes
a spin and how to not do it?

How much should we focus and teach spin avoidance vs. spin proficiency?

The same question comes up about instrument training. The IFR training
requires 3 hours of instruments for power PPL, but is silent about
the number of hours of training of how to avoid inadvertent IFR.
Some pilots are emboldened by their IFR and their spin training
and either enter these conditions on purpose, or become
bold because of their training.

I've had students do both: spins solo and intentional IFR without
a rating. Since then I have spent a LOT more time talking about the
hazards of these manuevers by low time pilots, both before and after
I give them this training. And I now spend a LOT more time teaching
about how these things develop and can be avoided, rather than teaching
the emergency procedure for recovery again and again and again.

I've done maybe a hundred spins in a dozen different aircraft,
but when I teach it to a new student, I always do it only
once (for PPL) and we spend a lot of time and take a lot of
precautions (remove all potentially flying projectiles,
wear parachutes, do an actual W&B not just paper, etc).
I don't do this for me (I know the W&B beforehand, I've
done the pre-flight myself already, I know if this
particular aircraft needs forward stick for recovery, etc).
Instead I want to show them by example that spins and instrument
flight are serious business, and that even the
professionals are extra thorough before these manuevers.

So I guess I'm saying doing these dramatic manuevers
repeatedly inadvertently may in some students convey
the wrong impression that such things are routine. They are not.

They are emergency procedures, and taught to convey
the full impact of such an emergency, to focus the student
on avoiding the emergency. As many accident reports show,
spin recovery procedures, in real life, rarely get
used when it really counts, because one is too low
(400 feet up base to final).
Spin recovery at 3000ft is just something we do after
the demonstration so we can fly some more that day.

Spin avoidance is the key, at least in my book.
Just like IFR avoidance for the power PPL.

If a pilot is looking for more, take an acro course or
get an instrument rating...or join the military :P

My two cents...