Puchaz Spinning thread that might be of interest in light of the recent accident.

"Mike Borgelt" wrote in message
news
On 25 Jan 2004 01:26:39 GMT, (Edward Downham)
wrote:

If I took charge of a gliding club using Puchacz(s) for basic training,
the
first thing I would do is pile them all in a heap in the corner of the
field
and set fire to them.

This may come across as something of a controversial viewpoint. Let me
explain.

As far as I know, we are now into double figures (in the UK alone) in
terms of
fatalities when it comes to stall/spin accidents in the Puchacz. Compare
this
to gliders like the twin Grob and K-21: there are far greater numbers of
them
flying many times more hours with a much better record. Even older
machines
such as the K-13 stand out well in comparison.

I really can't see the advantage of a training glider that spins so
readily and
kills you if you get the recovery (slightly) wrong.

I think some of the instructing fraternity (in the UK) have become too
focussed
on spinning as an 'exercise' and not something to be avoided. I believe
that if
a significant group of pilots are having _inadvertent_ stall/spin
incidents/accidents when they are flying solo, then there is something
very
very wrong with the most elementary training we are giving.

I read and hear much concerning technical details of spinning, i.e. what
glider
X does after 5 turns with part aileron and that glider Y flicks when you
yank
and stamp on the controls. All fairly irrelevant. If you get to the point
of
having to do a full recovery one might question as to how you got there
in the
first place. If you are low down (especially in machines like the
Puchacz),
where most bad accidents occur, knowing how to recover from a spin is
probably
not going to be of much use. Indeed, it may help to make the subsequent
impact
unsurviveable.

What we seem to be failing to do is to instill a basic awareness of what
the
glider is up to, and the _instinctive_ reactions required if the airframe
stops
responding to your commands. Mike Cuming wrote a seminal article in S&G,
some
years back, entiltled: "STOP PULLING THE STICK BACK!". This should be
required
reading for all pre-solo students.

If you really want to show people full-blooded spins and recoveries, take
them
up to a safe height in an aerobatic power aircraft, certified for those
kind of
manoevres. You will be able to do much more for a lot less money.

Frankly, I see little point in making pilots deliberately demonstrate
their
'expertise' in abusing a glider to the point it autorotates, then
attempting to
do something about it. This is not the world aerobatic championships. I
would
much rather see immediate instinctive corrections to any possible loss of
control.

To the experienced pilots/instructors reading this: when was the last
time you
ended up (inadvertently) in a spin? Yes, you get wing drops in thermals
etc.
but do you sit there, doing nothing, until the ground and sky start going
round
very fast? No. I'm sure you don't, as you are alive to read this.

What drove me to stay up at night to write this post was a feeling of
anger/helplessness/sadness that yet more people have died in what I
regard as a
pointless exercise. I knew the P1 in the double-fatal crash this week but
not
his fifteen year old student.

Safe flying to all of you.




Thank you Edward. That is the best article on this issue I have ever
seen.

I agree 100% and particularly with the "do it in a power plane
designed for this". I did this two years ago in a Pitts S2A with an
experienced airshow pilot who is also an aerobatic instructor. We both
wore parachutes, had a proper briefing and agreed to abandon ship if
control not regained by 4000 feet AGL. All spins were begun from at
least 9000 feet. I learned more about spinning in that hour than in my
previous 35 years flying.

Now for a solution to keep everyone happy - I believe we have the
technology to build a realistic, close to full motion, spin simulator
at an affordable price.
This will allow through and complete exploration of the pre stall,
stall and spin regime for training and combine this with one real full
spin aircraft exercise at altitude with proper precautions and
briefing.

Lets do this and stop killing people in training exercises.

We lost a couple of people in Australia a few years ago in a Blanik
during an annual "spin check".
The spin turned into a spiral and the aircraft broke up in the
recovery. They weren't at high altitude nor wearing parachutes.

Many experienced pilots I know flat out refuse to do full spins during
annual checks as being an unnecessary risk. They will happily
demonstrate stalls and incipient spins.

Mike Borgelt

I did an annual check of a ATP pilot who owns a glider. He had also been
flying aerobatic aircraft such as the Citabria and PItts. The annual check
was in a Blanik L-23. We decided on a two turn spin so that I could know
when to expect a recovery attempt.

At two turns, I saw the rear pedals shift to their anti-spin position but
the stick remained aft of center and the L-23 continued to spin as if
nothing had been done to stop it. I said, "two turns" to remind him of our
bargain. Then the stick moved forward and the glider stopped rotating and
entered the recovery dive.

Asked about the delay in recovery, the pilot said that the standard recovery
technique used in the powered aircraft he had been flying was just to
reverse the rudder and to keep the stick aft of center. I pointed out that
every glider I knew of required forward stick for a sure recovery. (We did
several more spins until we both were comfortable with his spin recovery
technique.)

I think the take-home lesson is that airplanes can spin more benignly than
gliders. Relying on spin training in airplanes is just not always
appropriate and can leave the pilot with misconceptions about glider spin
recovery.

I think that, if you fly gliders that will spin, it is wise to experience
the spin recovery at least once and preferably more often than that.

That said, there is nothing wrong with basic training that emphasizes
recognition of an incipient spin over spin recovery. Recognition that a
spin is imminent, and knowledge of the technique to prevent it, will save
more lives than expert spin recovery.

So, is spin training dangerous? Yes, but much less dangerous than not doing
spin training. The path from novice to expert is sometimes fraught with
peril but remaining a novice is more dangerous still. The Puch, Blanik, and
Lark spin more like the glass gliders most of us fly. As such, they are
excellent trainers. Just choose an instructor that is very experienced with
them.

Bill Daniels

Bill Daniels