Puchaz Spinning thread that might be of interest in light of the recent accident.

"F1y1n" wrote in message
om...
"Vaughn" wrote in message
...
"F1y1n" wrote in message
om...

I once asked an instructor to demonstrate a spin in a two-seat
aircraft I was transitioning into.

Did you have chutes? In the US, the only time you are allowed to
spin
dual without chutes is when you are working on a rating that requires
spin
training. If you were asking the CFI to spin without chutes (just a
wild
guess), he was 100% correct to turn you down. I would too.

Unless you are already CFIG, you are always 'working on a rating' when
flying dual with a (current) CFIG. No parachutes needed for spinning.
And no, as I said, he did not turn me down because of the lack of a
chute.

Wrong. This is a very optimistic intrepetation of the FARs that I have
heard before, I doubt that it would fly with the FAA. If you don't have a
commercial, you are not "working on your CFI".


I would also refuse to spin a student in a glider that I had not
previously spun myself.

This begs the question: Why the hell would you instruct in an aircraft
you haven't spun yourself? Doing so would be foolish, IMHO.

It is done all the time.

Like it or not;

not

Take it up with the feds, I actually agree. (for the record, I delayed
my solo until I received spin training)


in the US, spin training is not required for the
commercial rating...

...but it is required for CFI. That does not make every CFI a
qualified acro jock.

If you read the FARs you will find that spin training is not acro.

Where?


A spin is a well-behaved, predictable flight regime...

Not necessarily true, not even true of all trainers. Some gliders
have, (or at least are reputed to have) multiple spin modes.

The spin rate, pitch angle, descent rate, and any pitch oscillation
amplitude and frequency does depend on the CG and gross weight, sure,
but a spin within the CG in an approved glider with a standard
airworthiness certificate is always benign can be recovered using the
documented procedures. As I said: 'well-behaved' and 'predictable'.

Read the rest of this thread, and then go back and google old threads
on the Puchaz.

Not all
aircraft have perfect rigging, and a certain percentage have accumulated
repairs and/or mods over years of operation that change the distribution
of
mass about the various axis and have an unknown effect on spin behavior.

Any mods that effect the CG require a new weight & balance. See my
comment above re safe flight within CG. You'd be suicidal flying a
glider with an unkown spin behavior. Instructing in one would be
border-line criminal. My point is: a spin is not some black magic.
Learn it, and instruct it. If you are afraid of spinning you shouldn't
be flying, much less teaching.

There is more to it than weight and balance, the distribution of weight
around the cg is very important to spin behaviour. My point is that the
glider on the flight line may not be the same as the glider that was
manufactured. It is idiocy to assume it will always behave the same.


Just two weeks ago, I found myself practicing stalls in a 152 that
I
wouldn't spin in a bet. It had a dent in the leading edge of one wing
and
had a nasty wing drop at every stall, but otherwise performed well.

Most 150s and 152s I have flown drop a wing at stall, as do many older
gliders. Does this make them unsafe to spin? Emphatically no! They
will spin happily in either direction.

Again; this was not the same airplane that left the factory, the
airfoils were no longer symmetrical right and left. The airplane follows
the laws of physics, it can't read the flight manual.

Have a nice life;
Vaughn