A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Instrument Flight Rules
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Change in AIM wording concerning procedure turn



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #18  
Old September 30th 05, 12:51 PM
Gary Drescher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"S Narayan" wrote in message
news:1128031835.1bb41b72ab7f6a781ad35e5e7380cc8f@t eranews...

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
...
"Kris Kortokrax" wrote in message
...
New text

5-4-9. Procedure Turn
a. A procedure turn is the maneuver prescribed to perform a course
reversal to establish the aircraft inbound on an intermediate or final
approach course. The procedure turn or hold in lieu of procedure turn is
a required maneuver

(the following text is underlined in the AIM)
when it is necessary to perform a course reversal.

The procedure turn is not required when the symbol "No PT" is shown,
when RADAR VECTORING to the final approach course is provided, when
conducting a timed approach, or when the procedure turn is not
authorized.


The new text strikes me as entirely ambiguous. It could mean:

"The procedure turn is a required maneuver, unless one of the following
conditions obtains, in which case a course reversal is unnecessary: 1)
the symbol 'NoPT' is shown; 2) radar vectoring to the final approach
course is provided; 3) you are conducting a timed approach; or 4) the
procedure turn is not authorized."

Or it could mean:

"The procedure turn is a required maneuver, unless: 1) the symbol 'NoPT'
is shown; 2) radar vectoring to the final approach course is provided; 3)
you are conducting a timed approach; or 4) the procedure turn is not
authorized; or 5) there is (for any reason) no necessity to perform a
course reversal."

The two interpretations differ if conditions 1-4 don't obtain, but the
pilot (and/or controller) thinks there's no need for a course reversal.
The first interpretation says the procedure turn is still required in
that case; the second one says the opposite.


As a previous poster noted, they need to define how many degrees of turn
constitutes a "course reversal". Then it would clear and unambiguous.
Otherwise it is still is open to interpretation depending on the
aircraft/speed etc.


No, the ambiguity I'm pointing out isn't just a matter of the vagueness of
"course reversal". The new AIM phrasing is ambiguous as to whether the
enumerated conditions are meant only as an *elaboration* of what it means
for a course reversal to be unnecessary (in which case a charted PT is
required unless the enumerated conditions are met), or whether a lack of
need for a course-reversal is meant as an *addition* to the enumerated
conditions (in which case the PT might not be required even if none of the
enumerated conditions are met).

A secondary point (mentioned earlier in the thread) is that the TERPS
standards can require a PT on the basis of altitude, even if you're already
aligned with the final approach course. Moreover, it would make little sense
for the AIM to recapitulate the TERPS criteria for PTs in order to specify
the required action by pilots. Instead, the procedure chart itself should be
designed according to the TERPS criteria, and should specify a PT
requirement (by omitting the 'NoPT' designation) whenever those criteria are
met. The first interpretation above would be consistent with that intent.

--Gary


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GPT (Gulfport MS) ILS 14 question A Lieberman Instrument Flight Rules 18 January 30th 05 04:51 PM
Required hold? Nicholas Kliewer Instrument Flight Rules 22 November 14th 04 01:38 AM
more radial fans like fw190? jt Military Aviation 51 August 28th 04 04:22 AM
USAF = US Amphetamine Fools RT Military Aviation 104 September 25th 03 03:17 PM
IFR in the 1930's Rich S. Home Built 43 September 21st 03 01:03 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2025 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.