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On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 21:17:02 GMT, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"A Lieberman" wrote in message . .. I am like you Jim, seems that Steve is not very clear in what he says. What did I say that was not very clear? Answer this question. Why would I hold if there is no delay? A paper stop is a delay. I am no longer direct. Define hold. Hold is doing a racetrack pattern around a fix is what I was taught. If you tell me to hold, then I am no longer cleared beyond a fix. I am now doing circles and expect an EFC to stop spinning in circles. Are their other holding patterns I need to know about? FAAO 7110.65 Subsection please. I googled the above and it gave me visual flight rule references and FAR 91.185 specifically refer to holding instructions without an EFC and the AIM does so implicitly. Why then do some insist that holding instructions must always include an EFC? Because when there is a no delay, I expect to be flying a straight line. You tell me to hold, I better start holding per published hold instructions and flying circles. Go to http://www.vateud-td.org/references/Holding.asp TAKEN from the above website When no delay is expected, the controller should issue a clearance beyond the fix as soon as possible and, whenever possible, at least 5 minutes before the aircraft reaches the clearance limit. I don't see me flying in circles Steve with the above instructions. I am flying to a fix, you give me a new clearance limit. No teardrop, parallel or direct entry. I fly a straight line. You keep saying that I would be holding with no delay which is absolutely wrong. My IFR filing does not include MBO to JAN, to MCB hold at MCB direct to L31 does it? Not at all. I file to the fixes as appropriate. You put me in a hold, and guess what, the clearance has changed and I need an EFC. How many ways can I say, if ATC puts me in a hold, then I expect an EFC. The above seems to be a real good reference on on holding. Read toward the bottom of the page for ATC actions. Read 4F and tell me that is incorrect. And if it's incorrect, please provide a reference. Allen |
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