ASK 21 spin ballast installation

Getting into this conversation late, sorry.

At the Air Force Academy they used the ASK-21 for spin training (back in the
days when the 2-33 was their basic trainer). They had tables to determine
the exact amount of tail ballast to install based on pilot weights, and then
the thing spun like crazy. Without the weights, it is a good trainer for
all other purposes, and didn't spin so well.

It spun as well as the Lark IS-28B2 I used to instruct in. Quick entry,
wrapped up nice and tight, and made an honest recovery.

Agree with those who say spin training is essential, and the ASK-21 is a
good trainer for that, if configured properly.

Bullwinkle
CFIG

On 2/28/06 4:48 PM, in article , "Mark
Lenox" wrote:


All pilots need to be taught spin recognition, and recovery. Preferably
in an aircraft that spins really well, like an L-13/23 for example. I
really don't like the idea of adding the spin ballast to the K-21 to teach
spins. Just use something else.

I own an ASK-21, and love it dearly. It is an outstanding aircraft. When
my children get old enough to learn to fly it, I will be quite comfortable
letting them. I'll teach them spin awareness in something else.



Mark Lenox
CFIG


"John Doe" wrote in message
...
At risk of re-starting the age old argument about spin
training, I'll bite.

I trained in a combination of Grob 103's and K-13's
(both of which spin, although both produce variable
results), my first solo's were in a Grob 103, fortunately
I was extremely aware of spinning and exactly what
these gliders would do if provoked and hence was extremely
careful about treating it gently. If I wasn't careful
I wouldn't have been sent solo (I hope).

Fast forward several years, Husbands Bosworth, Half
Cat course (roughly UK equivalent of CFIG). It's the
last day, time for 'blogs' check rides. The scenario,
the course instructor (who shall remain nameless except
for he's on the BGA safety committee) in from is playing
a just post Silver pilot, annual check, we tow off
in a K21, up to height, and true to form he starts
acting up, mal co-ordinating turns almost stalling/spinning.
My response, taking example from what my instructors
in the past had done, was to let him fly sloppily,
occasionally chastising him, even though the only reason
we weren't spinning was the K21's handling.

Naturally on the ground I received a good 15 minute
'talking to' (it was too polite and calm for an ear-bashing)
on how if he'd done that in anything else (especially
the Puchaz's we'd been flying previously), he'd have
spun us several times. Needless to say I learned from
that (along with subsequent instructing).

It is all too easy to fall into the trap of allowing
sloppy flying in a K21 because it's 'nice' and 'safe'.
If he'd been a solo pilot in a Disucs, he'd have spun
himself and if it had been on final turn....

I'll be blunt here, and for that I make no apologies,
if you are not capable of running a safe and informative
basic lesson in a spinnable trainer, you do not have
the skills to be an instructor, and if you would not
trust your pupil to be safe in that same trainer on
their first solo, you have not done your job as an
instructor.

Remember - If you, as a (presumably) experienced instructor,
are getting uncomfortable with something they are doing
you should be taking over. Your tolerances are much
bigger than theirs should be (for basic training at
least), so training them to keep within their limits
involves taking control before you get to a do-or-die
situation.

*Flame retardand suit on*

Cheers

Jamie Denton


p.s. Before anyone points it out, of course you need
to teach advanced, close to the limit, stuff at some
point, but a first solo pilot doesn't need to be a
practised hedge hopper, they need to be able to stay
in safe easy limits (like not going out of range of
the field or not postponing starting circuit below
800ft for example).
At 12:54 28 February 2006,
wrote:
Charles, are you saying that the PW-6 has an advantage
over the ASK-21
because it actually CAN spin WITHOUT the spin weights?
Rrrright....
what an advantage.

If that is actually true than I would not teach flying
lessons in the
PW-6 and neither give students the permission for their
first solo
flight...

Otherwise, as Marc said, completely off-topic. Or was
this just a
misplaced reply for the 'most ugliest gliders in the
world'-thread? :-)