End of Season Sunset Warning for SSA-OLC Participants

Paul Remde wrote:
Hi,

I have a crazy, wild suggestion.... Fly your task so that you land before
any known definition of sunset and you will never need to worry. That is
what most pilots do. Those that do not are not playing fair - in my
opinion.

Paul Remde

I have a crazy suggestion too. It is absolutely clear the FAA rules
about what constitutes daylight flying are very much open to debate.
They weren't designed to make a level playing field for a glider
competition which is what you and Doug and a number of others want to
use them for. It's clear that all this talk about glider pilots getting
a bad rep, etc, etc is hogwash. You actually think some people are
cheating and you're using the FAA as an excuse to win the point.

So. If the SSA-OLC believes there ought to be a rule about how late a
qualifying flight can end, then it needs TO MAKE ITS OWN RULES! I don't
see why anybody should fly a competition conservatively and using the
FAA as a crutch - as Doug attempted to do - isn't going to work.

So. Paul, Doug, Al, everybody else. Stand on your own feet. Make some
rules. YOUR OWN RULES! Make a decision and defend it! Or else stop
the jaw-flapping. Stop hanging off the FAA!

Can I suggest you do the same WRT 18000feet and SUA boundaries.

The FAA's rules aren't designed to make a fair glider competition.
They're designed to keep pilots safe. If you want to run a competition
where all this stuff is measured to the inch and the second in complete
defiance of commonsense, have the guts to make your own rules. Stop
using the FAA as an excuse.

GC



"Graeme Cant" gcantinter@tnodedotnet wrote in message
...
Paul Remde wrote:
I must respectfully disagree. If we just use sunset as the end of
soaring flight that gives an unfair advantage to a pilot that is far from
home or at altitude when the sun sets. He/she should have planned ahead
and landed on time.
And exactly which time would that be, Paul?

You seem to have lost track of the story so far:
Doug wants to be able to pick illegal flights on OLC but he's having
trouble deciding which flights are illegal because he doesn't know when
it's "sunset" (as 'un'defined in the FARs) at all the places OLC flights
go to. Last night two astronomers locked horns and are heading for the
jugular over when sunset might be.

Now read on:

I know this won't help but in Oz the rules a
1. "Night" is the period between the end of evening civil twilight and
the beginning of morning civil twilight.
2. CASA (FAA equivalent) publishes beginning and end of daylight graphs
for latitudes from 0 to 45 throughout the year.
3. Daylight flight occurs between those times after converting local time
to Standard/Daylight Time.

Note that daylight "ceases" at a particular longitude solely dependent on
its latitude. No allowance for terrain, etc.

But the following is also in the AIP:
"Users ... should note that the parameters used in compiling the ...
Graphs do not include the nature of the terrain ... other than a cloudless
sky and unlimited visibility ... Consequently, the presence of cloud
cover, poor visibility or high terrain to the west of an aerodrome will
cause daylight to end ... earlier than that extracted from the appropriate
graph.
Allowance should made for these factors when planning a flight..."

The rules are reasonable but are no help in maintaining a level playing
field for a gliding competition.

So, Doug. Make up your mind what arbitrary rule you would like to
implement for the SSA-OLC and publish it. Let's say - evening civil
twilight at the latitude.

Stop using the FAA as an excuse and a crutch. Stand on your own feet.
Make a rule. Publish it. Enforce it. Cop the flak.

GC