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Juvat wrote:
Ed Rasimus posted: In "Clashes" Michel is dealing with MiG engagements, not with air defense alerts. Clashes has a lot of good research behind it and Marshall has the experience to back up that of which he writes. True...but wouldyou acknowledge that F-102s did fly CAPs and not simply sitting cocked at the end of a runway? And can you agree that the F-102 shot down by the MiG-21 in Feb 1968 was flying CAP? I would acknowledge that F-102s flew. I would acknowledge that F-102s even did some ersatz ground attack. I would assert that in 150 North Vietnam missions in Rolling Thunder, Linebacker I & II, I never once was supported by an F-102 CAP. Not once. I never was supported by and F-102 escort, nor in a package with an F-102 sweep either. Never had an F-102 participate in any NVN mission that I was on. Certainly there were F-4s on alert at Udorn and absolutely they were flying CAP, but CAP is a different mission than air defense and alert can be for a number of mission options--I sat alert at Korat in 105's, but that was SAR and ground attack alert. And, I sat alert at Korat in F-4Es, but that also was for ground attack. So taking this just a little bit farther...if they were still in place at Udorn in 1972 they just might have flown CAPs, they might have even practiced some ACM vs the local air-to-air sqdns (13th, 555th, and TDY 523d, etc). Yet when the F-8s came to town to play, no mention of giving the F-102s a taste. No mention of using F-102s for DACM for the benefit of the air-to-air guys. [FWIW, Ritchie does say that the 432d selected crews for the air-to-air mission into RP-6.] I doubt that they would have flown and briefed, scheduled ACM. It was simply against AF policy to fly dissimilar in those days. And, it must be considered that the mission was to fly combat, not to train locally in theater. There was the occasional hassle during RTB, but no scheduled, briefed, training objectives established DACM. Certainly Ritchie is correct. In July of '72, the 7th AF DO toured the Thai bases. He directed that since the Linebacker mission was critical, each base would establish "primary Linebacker crews"--folks who specialized in a particular mission, who would be first scheduled for Pack VI every day and who would carry the load. That meant Udorn established specialized A/A crews. It's the same policy that had me assigned as a primary F-4 Hunter/Killer SEAD guy. I honestly don't know what unit was deployed, but I'm fairly confident in the recollection that 102s were still in SEA in '72. I certainly like Thompson. His compilation of history in "To Hanoi and Back" is excellent. Fair enough...since I got you to acknowledge that Thompson just might have his **** in one sock, look at page 309 of his book. Fourth entry down...Udorn...number of F-102s there in 1967 = 6, number there in July 1972 = ZERO. Number of F-102s in SEA in July 1972 = ZERO. I'll concede. Could be. I'm working strictly from memory. A good memory generally, but capable of error. He could be mistaken, his data is from a HQ document and not an eye witness account. Still, I like to deal with people who actually flew the missions more than folks who are familiar with the bowels of the AU library and how to run a micro-fiche machine. I resemble that remark...Fair enough...Idle --*Chaff* --*Flare* -- I'm just having a problem wondering whose "there i was story" to believe. T'was Ronaldus Maximus that said, "trust, but verify." Can't argue with that. If the 366th moved out of Danang in July of '72 at the peak of Linebacker, it's a surprise to me. Ummm, respectfully are you being sarcastic with the last part? See Thompson page 223...talks about the movement of the 366th from Da Nang to Takhli in June of 1972. So I ask the question again, sincerely, who do we believe? And why am I doing all the citations/research? OK, I knew that Tahkli got the 4th deployment for S-J when the base was re-activated. Didn't realize that the Gunfighters moved there as well. And, you're doing the research because you love it! Juvat Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (ret) ***"When Thunder Rolled: *** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam" *** from Smithsonian Books ISBN: 1588341038 |
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