EU as joke (modified)

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 18:13:53 +0100, Ralph Savelsberg wrote:



Alan Minyard wrote:


You mean the europeans who supported Saddam?????


Well, which europeans do you feel supports Saddam?



I can answer that for him. Any European who thinks that attacking Iraq
wasn't necessarily a good idea in the war against terrorism or who
thinks that attacking Iraq without a clear idea about the follow-up
wasn't very wise.

In his view, (which fits nicely with crude stereotypes about Americans)
displayed here regularly, if you're not with George W. Bush against
Saddam, you obviously must be a Saddam supporter.

He actually called me a Saddam supporter once.

Please Mr. Minyard, feel free to comment if I'm being inaccurate here.

Regards,
Ralph Savelsberg


Not inaccurate, merely either uninformed or cowardly.


I was just recycling your reasoning about why Europeans are Saddam
supporters. You actually explained this to me a while ago. I think my
memory about this is fairly accurate.

You know nothing of our
plans in Iraq (you might want to note that Afghanistan is about to vote on a
constitution making it an Islamic Republic).


No, indeed, I don't know your plans in Iraq apart from the: "we're going
to turn it into a shining beacon of democracy for the rest of the Middle
East". You don't know `your' plans in Iraq either. The Iraqis don't know
your plans with Iraq. Heck, I wonder whether the Pentagon knows what its
plans are in Iraq.

Ah, so since we have not notified you of our plans, there cannot be any plans.
Rather faulty logic there. Note my comments about Afghanistan.

And you are either with us in the
war on terrorism or against us. I know that having to make an actual choice
scares most europeans silly, but, in this case, a decision is mandatory.


All of Europe, including France and Germany have decided to support the
US in the `War Against Terrorism'. Stretching that definition to include
Iraq has eroded that support, however.


No, old europe has been nothing other than obstructionist in the
war on terrorism. And you are either with us or against us.

We really do not care what europe decides, as they will never be of
any real assistance, but we do need to know who the enemies are.


If in your definition being an ally means us answering `How high?'
whenever the US president shouts `jump', I guess we'd rather not be your
allies. BTW, you might want to take a closer look at some of your other
Allies: most notably Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

No problem, you are not our allies. The next time europe screws up
do not look to us to bail you out (again).


As for "crude stereotypes", we are the most advanced nation on earth,
as illustrated by the Nobel awards that our people receive. We have
so many foreign students trying to enter our universities that most
have to assign quotas.




The stereotype would be that Americans think that 'if you're not with
us, you're against us'. Note that I call this stereotype crude, as in
fact all stereotypes are, because I know there are many very nice and
intelligent Americans who, unlike you, are able to see nuances and who
know that if a country fails to agree with the US, that doesn't
necessarily mean it's `THE ENEMY'.
I'm not the one confirming the crude stereotypes here.


If you are not with us, you are against us is a true statement. Nuances
do not apply in this case, although the european culture of
never doing anything is obvious. Not a "crude stereotype" at all,
merely statements of fact.


Your stereotypes are of no interest or concern for us. If you want to
continue with the fantasy that europe is somehow "cultured" you
can do it with our blessing.


For somebody who doesn't care about the stereotypes you certainly seem
to get upset about them. I can't blame you. If I were an American, I'd
probably be upset about them as well.
BTW: aren't you assuming that since I'm European and disagree with you,
I must be one of those people who think that Europe is more cultured.
Your reply certainly seems to indicate that.
If you are, you're wrong. Europe has a different culture than the US,
both with benefits and drawbacks, depending on which parts of Europe and
the US being compared, since neither are homogeneous. However, I
wouldn't call Europe more cultured. I don't think the ratio of knuckle
headed idiots over smart and or decent people is all that different in
Europe from that in the US.



BTW, I've visited your country for a conference in Texas and a trip
through Colorado, Utah, Nevada, and Arizona. I enjoyed my stay, the
service, the hospitality, and the fantastic landscapes that I've seen. I
have good friends living in your country and regard the standard of the
research being done in your country as very high. Pretty much all
Americans (including Texans) that I've met in person are actually very
likeable people, even though we might disagree on a few issues. I'd
love to visit again, though I doubt I'd ever want to live in the US for
an extended period of time.


We will not lose any sleep over that.

But do not, rpt, not, get in our way.

Al Minyard