EU as joke (modified)

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, BUFDRVR
blurted out:


Everything we saw from an intelligence angle, and even the UN said he was
hiding weapons or the ability to make them.

Except for AF intelligence, if one is to believe "published" reports.

Most nations didn't disagree,

No argument, what other nations possess the technical means to confirm
or refute US intelligence? Israel probably with HUMINT, but they have
zero motive to refute intelligence "beliefs."

Now suddenly many nations in Europe are
saying "we told you so", when in fact, that wasn't the case. No one said for a
fact he didn't have weapons, even the UN inspectors believed he was not fully
cooperating.

You and I read different press accounts (not a crime). I think the
trend in European criticism is the absence of proof (besides some
plans) that everybody assumed would be discovered. Our own congress is
demanding to know why and how did the Intel community **** up their
WMD assessment. Surely if good ole republicans can cast doubt, then
europeans should be afforded the same.

I think we can be sure that Rumsfeld was not going to aid terrorists in
conducting an attack on Americans in the US or overseas. This "fact" has little
bearing on this discussion.

I agree that Rumsfeld's previous goodwill visit to Hussein had no
bearing on current events...but I use it to suggest that the current
anger by you and other americans toward our european friends can just
as easily change.

Once again, the US could be certain that the CIA would not need to be attacked
and overthrown as they would no longer be supplying anyone with Stingers.

Sorry not trying to be glib, but I cannot understand wht you wrote.

Except for universal agreement that Saddam Hussein was/is a brutal SOB
and worthless human being, perhaps other avenues could have been
attempted.

What like *another* Billy Clinton cruise missile attack?

Well as part of plan sure...plus Mossad inspired assassination
attempts (bloody, **** with Hussein's head attacks), level all his
palaces with B-2s hovering over the country.

You're kidding right. We couldn't get him when we invaded, you expect to pick
him off with a couple of CALCM?

Kidding? **** no! ALCMs? pfffftttt You will recall how Qaddafi reacted
to the SINGLE attempt on his life.

If this was percieved as possible, it would
have been done.

Of this, I am not convinced.

integrity

You're kidding right?

Nope.

As a "throw away" piece, I'm sure the guys left high
and dry without air support (that JFK *personally* assured them would be there)
at the Bay of Pigs would disagree with Kennedy's "integrity".

JFK cancelled CIA airstrikes of when it became apparent that most of
the 1,500 liberators had already been killed or captured. You're
suggesting the US should have gone to war with Cuba because the CIA
operators ****ed up?

combat experience

Completely irrelevent for as a President.

Fair enough, clearly you won't be bringing up GWB's military record.

combat wounds

So because JFK had his boat rammed by a Japanese cruiser, this makes him a
better President than Bush? I fail to see the connection.

No problem....

education

Interesting, because Bush was accused of having his daddy buy him his degrees,
the same thing was said about Kennedy.

OK, so how would GWB phrase JFK's famous, "Ask not what your country
can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

Berlin was extremely WELL handled and precipitated by Nikita closing
off access to Berlin (but you knew that).

Wrong.

It was well handled, but you're correct that I mangled two points into
one. Khruschev did not build the wall to prevent western access to
East Berlin. His threats (keep reading below) caused a panic in EB,
the DDR built the wall to halt to exodus.

Twice before Kennedy took office Krushev threatened to seize West
Berlin. Ike did nothing and Krushev never did anything.

I think you'll recall that...

Nov 1958 Khrushchev demanded that NATO vacate Berlin and the city
would become a demilitarized "free" city.

16 Dec 1958 NATO rejected this demand.

Sep 1959 Khrushchev visited Ike in the US, Berlin not resolved.

5 May 1960...Francis Gary Powers shotdown (I guess this it the part
where you would say, "Way to go Ike.")

9 Nov 1960 JFK elected

17 Apr 1961 BoP...Operation Pluto starts and fails damn fast.

3 Jun 1961 JFK and Khrushchev meet, USSR ultimatum of 6 months or
nuclear war. Thousands of E Berliners flee to the west.***REASON for
the WALL***

[As an aside, in 1978 at a Foreign Affairs Conference hosted by the
USNA, I heard the East German Ambassador clearly state the Berlin Wall
was built because of the mass exodus after Khrushchev threatened
nuclear war. Not JFK as you clearly suggest.]

17 Aug 1961 Berlin Wall construction starts

31 Aug 1961 USSR resumes nuke testing after 3 year moratorium, JFK
responds with US underground nuke testing

1 Oct 1961- Aug 1962 31 ANG flying squadrons federalized/mobilized due
to the Berlin Crisis.

As a result, the Berlin Wall was constructed. Way to go JFK!

You are in error. Berliners fled to the west as a result of
Krushchev's ultimatum and threat of nuclear war. The Wall was erected
to stop the exodus.

Nor was I asking the UN to "rubber stamp" US actions. The UN doesn't exist for
US security, but it should not be allowed to damage US security.

How can the UN damage US security? We're the friggin' 800 pound
gorilla. Can't you see how illogical it is to suggest otherwise?

The UN asked France not to test nuclear weapons in the
Pacific, they did it anyway. The UN asked the UK, Isreal and France to stop
military action against Egypt during the Suez crisis, they continued.

Respectfully, you and I are in agreement here. The US will do what it
wants, the UN cannot prevent it, therefore the UN cannot be accused of
damaging US security. France cannot be guilty of damaging our
security, we ****ing kicked Saddam Hussein and his pricks out of
office. The US is now up to its ass in alligators while trying to
drain the swamp.

Juvat