AF1 range/route/refueling?

"Brett" wrote in message
news
"Keith Willshaw" wrote:

|
| The crew changes took place at Bahrain and Singapore. If you assume
| 12 cabin crew for each sector going non stop would result in a need
| to lose space for another 24 people at least 12 of whom would need
| sleeping accomodation. This would be a massive overhead.

Would it be on an A380, there appears to be plenty of volume available.


An A380 will need a bigger cabin crew so proportinately there
would seem to be little difference.

snip

|
| So the pre-war trial was ajudged a success.

16 crossing consituted the trials and I doubt they were finished before
the start of WWII.


Hey its your data and it referred to 16 crossings having been made.

| | and the cost was
| | considered less than the alternatives which were limited.
|
| What was the cost of delivering 1200 gallons of fuel to an aircraft
in
| flight? What was the average cost for each passenger with and
without
| inflight refueling, how large a subsididy was the British Government
| willing to pay in peacetime/wartime, how much would a passenger be
| willing to pay in peacetime.
|
| Its quite true that seat price was not the driving factor it is now
| but I suspect that cost was still an issue and not having to land in
| nothern canadian waters in a flying boat was seen as a real plus.

Your description for landplanes included stops in Iceland, that probably
had sea conditions similar to those observed in Newfoundland (it didn't
become part of Canada until after the war).


Pardon !

How do sea conditions in Iceland affect land planes ?

A large swell makes putting down a flying boat rather
difficult but reall wont incommode a DC-4 much.

You may not be aware of it but the IFR option was downright
conventional when compared with the other options they tried.
In 1938 they tried Short-Mayo composite aircraft, which was a large
four-engined flying boat similar to the Empire design called 'Maia',
with a smaller seaplane ' Mercury' mounted on top. The 'Mercury'
was designed to carry mail over long distances but when fully laden
with fuel and mail, could not take off unassisted. Therefore the sole
purpose of 'Maia' was to take-off with 'Mercury' on its back (all engines
on both aircraft would be used for take-off), and when they got to a
suitable height they separated and 'Maia' would return to base, whilst
'Mercury' set off on its journey.


| The data you provided indicates Imperial Airways considered the
| trial a success and were only prevented from extending the service
| by the outbreak of war.

That depends on how you read the data presented, they continued the
testing after the outbreak of war and extended the service during the
war.


Actually the last flight arrived in New York in Sept 1939.



| Then ask yourself what $19 per gallon would do what to the seat mile
| costs of a modern airliner (airlines get upset with 30 cent price
| variations).
|
|
| I dont recall advocating this as a policy today,

Your comment was "Today the limit with most civil aircraft is crew
endurance anyway". I don't believe would be a driving factor to either
the airlines or with enough rested relief crews available, with
government regulators.


AFAIK there are no regs preventing IFR for commercial aircraft but
the regulations on crew rest are pretty stringent.

| especially since modern
| aircraft can fly for extended periods without refuelling. Flying from
| London to Singapore non-stop takes around 12.5 hours and
| even if there was no need to refuel the aircraft there's a need at
that
| point to swap cabin crews (they already carry extra flight crew) and
| clean and re-supply the aircraft. I have been fortunate enough to
| have always made the trip in business class but I'm told the
| lavatories back in economy can be pretty grim by this point

I believe I referred to them as "cattle in the back" and your original
comment said they could endure 24 hours, it sounds like they get
refreshment and cleaning stops along the way.


Not much, they get the option of stretching their legs for an hour
in the terminal. At Singapore I always head for the fitness club
on the 3rd floor and take a shower.

| | Land planes
| | could stop in Iceland and Goosebay but in winter this wasnt an
| | option for flying boats.
|
| How attractive is Botwood in winter?
|
|
| Not very I'd imagine but both Pan American and Imperial airways
| used it pre-war and the RCAF operated Catalina from there
| during WW2

Compared with coastal Iceland?


Well the idea was with IFR they didnt have to land seaplanes
at either location but could fly straight on to Montreal.

Keith