Fatal crash Arizona

On Saturday, May 10, 2014 10:22:28 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Let's not forget the time it takes to complete the turn or the distance
covered over the ground.

Without getting into the math, I can comfortably say that, using a 30 deg
bank will take longer to complete the turn and leave you further from the
runway. Likewise, at higher elevation airports your sink speed will be
higher (think true airspeed) so height loss will be greater than at sea
level.

Bruce raised the lateral displacement issue as well. Here is a link to a graphical depiction of the main parameters we've been discussing versus bank angle:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw1...it?usp=sharing

As to the lateral displacement versus bank angle tradeoff, I have some thoughts:

For the range of bank angles being discussed you are going to end up 400-600 feet (two turn radii) laterally displaced from the centerline (less wind drift - assuming a turn into any crosswind component). Where that puts you will depend A LOT on the airport configuration. If your plan is to land back on a 50-100 foot wide paved runway you will have to turn more than 180 degrees initially then do a reversal to get lined up and the displacement is less of a factor. If you are taking off from the centerline of a 800 foot wide turf runway bordered by 150 foot trees the difference between 400 feet of displacement and 600 feet of displacement matters quite a lot. Have situational awareness and control the airplane - words to live by.

Assuming in most cases the pilot will be trying to get back to a more narrow runway we have the challenge of turning 210-220 degrees on the initial turn and then making a reverse turn to get lined up. The reversal will be when the glider is the lowest so it's probably safe to presume that this turn will be at a lower bank angle (say, 20-30 degrees, perhaps in ground effect). This allows you to avoid performing a cartwheel in front of all your friends. I did this at a high bank angle when I was 11 years old (a story in itself) and can attest that it is not fun.

I'd say the best advice (summarizing the summary) is the following:

- Know ahead of time what your specific plan is for the specific takeoff, not just a general idea - including accounting for crosswinds, obstacles and where you are going to go straight ahead if needed. I have walked fields off the ends of the runways of several problematic airports and it helps a lot - if a field is not an airport it is likely full of surprises.
- Call out the decision height for straight ahead versus 180 while towing out.
- When committing to a 180 make a decisive, controlled and coordinated turn - initially up to 45-55 degrees of bank OR whatever maximum bank angle over 30 degrees you still have rock-solid speed control and coordination. Not being honest with yourself on this point can prove fatal.
- Gradually reduce the bank angle as you approach 180 degrees and continue turning until you can make a smooth turn reversal to the runway centerline.
- Fly the airplane - watch airspeed, coordination, wingtip clearance and obstacles (mine was a fence).
- Try to be aware when a controlled crash is better than the chance you are taking - it can happen quickly.

9B