For Keith Willshaw...

Ah yes the near total erase and change the subject approach, take 7.
Now we are into Denyav debating nothing new here really, I timed my effort
at 5 minutes plus the 5 minute review before sending.

The story so far,

1) the claims about the war warning message text, dropped after the
war warning text was actually posted. (the warnings are supposed to
make Pearl Harbor the only target)
2) the use of the character in the Pearl Harbor movie played by Dan
Aykroyd as a source of facts, dropped when it was revealed where
the name came from.
3) claims about the various investigations into the Pearl Harbor attack,
dropped when a list of such investigations was posted
4) attempts to promote the relatively recent congressional request to
promote General Short and Admiral Kimmel as proof of a conspiracy
are dropped, after the text of the resolution is posted.
5) claims about what Admiral Kimmel said are backed up by the URL
of the transcript of the congressional request meeting, Kimmel had
been dead for around 30 years before the meeting. The URL text
does not support pre knowledge of the attack and includes over
statements on Kimmels behalf (inventing 800 to 1,000 extra patrol
bombers available)
6) the claim the only investigation to clear Kimmel is the reliable one
despite the claim the findings and evidence have never been released.
Claim dropped again.
7) The claims the investigations were all rigged because it was one
entity investigating itself. Dropped since the claimed only investigation
to clear Kimmel was USN, the USN investigating the USN.
8) Hollywood is a US "premier quasi-governmental PSYOP organization."
Claim dropped.
9) The claim the US needed Pearl to be attacked, apparently the assaults
on Wake, Guam, Midway, the Philippines and US shipping were not enough.
Claim dropped.
10) The claim MacArthur received warnings Hawaii did not, claim dropped.
The same war warnings were sent to all commands in the Pacific.
11) the claim the "McCollum Memo" was a blueprint for US government
actions, dropped after the memo summary was posted, pointing out
what the memo actually said.
12) the claim McCollum was in charge of codebreaking dropped, his
memo header makes it clear he was in a different area.
13) If you write a book that says no conspiracy you are automatically
said to be pushing the official version, and such versions are claimed
to be wrong. No proof mind you. Claim dropped.
14) The conspiracy pushers cannot lie unless they receive official permission.
That was a good one.
15) There are still some USN intercept files still hidden, claim dropped.
16) The attempt to use Stinnett as a source appears to be dropped,
since the claims are so easy to prove wrong it seems. If you question
Stinnett directly he complains about spelling errors rather than reply.
17) The Lietwiler letter, claims dropped after the key text was posted.
18) Only in Washington are investigations rigged with hand picked
documents. Claim dropped.
19) JN-25 was an "easy" code, claim dropped.
20) Churchill quote meaning, claim dropped.
21) If you know one thing perfectly you must know another thing perfectly
(in an attempt to "prove" 1941 = 2001)
22) The war warnings become a blind rather than identifying Pearl as
the target. It would seem Denyav finally read the text after I posted it.
23) Allen Dulles, CIA chief saying they knew in 1941, claim dropped.
24) Denyav is now simply inventing things I have supposed to have said.

Denyav wrote in message ...
Now we are into claims being simply recycled, so be aware around 95%
of my text is simply putting back in the text Denyav simply has to drop,
nothing new here really, apart from the modern quotes. I timed my effort
at 10 minutes plus the 5 minute

You are very versed in using many detractors in your posts,but you seem to
forget the main rule:

Bad Policy cannot be corrected by excellent Strategy,bad Strategy cannot be
saved by excellent tactics.

Yes folks the non answer is the strategy.

If we put your detractors aside and summarize your most current position,we
find out :

1)According to you every statement no matter if they originated from
Stimson,Dulles,Churchill,Casey,Popov,Weiijeman,Ge n.Thorpe,Hoover,Capt.Holc
wick,Dies Lieb etc is IRRELEVANT for the Pearl Harbor incident if they point to
a direction other than official direction.

According to me the statements being used do not support the
conspiracy. By the way folks, no mention has been made for "Casey,
Popov, WGen.Thorpe,Hoover,Capt.Holcwick and "Lieb" before this
but do not worry, if you are going to lie about someone else, lie about
the discussion as well.

I like the way the Churchill quote cannot survive with the extra text
a few pages later being noted.

I like the fact the following Stimson quote is apparently confirming he
knew about the attack before hand.

"FDR stated that we were likely to be attacked perhaps as soon as next
Monday..The question was how should we maneuver them into position of firing
the first shot without too much danger to ourselves. In spite of risk involved,
however, in letting Japanase to fire the first shot, we realized that in order
to have full support of the American people it was desirable to make sure that
the Japanese be the ones to do this so that there should remain no doubt in
anyone's mind as to who were the Aggressors"

Henry Stimson, The Secretary of War,Nov.25,1941

Congratulations on a non relevant quote, by the way ever going to tell
us why the invasion of the Philippines, Wake and Guam and attacks
on US shipping were not enough for first shot honours? By the way the
above is apparently proof Stimson is admitting to allowing the Pearl
Harbor attack, as opposed to admitting he was not going to allow the
US to start shooting first.

Remember the isolationists, plus those that opposed FDR? The US
was a democracy, people actually differed from the government and
were allowed to. Such people were against the government starting
a war without congressional approval at least.

By the way "Next Monday" for someone writing on 25 November 1941
is 1 December 1941. Amazing how FDR knew the Japanese were
going to attack on 30 November 1941, the day after the 29 November
deadline the Japanese had set. Oh that's right, throw away all the
predictions that were incorrect and only ever mention the ones that
were correct, conspiracies need such help.

2)You have finally admitted,after resisting long time to do so,that the
Japanase blundered away JN25B code.

Translation Denyav needed to rewind to the start and simply lie about
what I have said.

You have also finally admitted that US took advantage of Japanase blunder
and recovered almost 5000 JN25B codes before March 1941.

This is what I said, in a different thread,

The codes in question were the A5 and B5 versions. That is the code
book was changed from A to B but the additive (random number) book
was left at 5. In August 1945 the USN noted it had 4,907 out of 50,000
additives for the 5 book. Which explains quite well why the main effect
of the failure to change additive books did not compromise the code
values, but did compromise the fact the basic code system was still in use.

If it did compromise the code values then it should have compromised
the A version as well, yet the USN reports knowing around 5% of the
code values when work stopped around March 1941.

You see it is quite simple announce every random number recovered
is a JN-25B code book value, totally different thing of course but do not
let that stop you. Please continue this line, it shows how wrong you are.

But according to you US,that was able to recover 5000 codes in only a few
months,suddenly stopped recovering codes in March 1941 !!!!!.

Yes folks, Denyav has to announce he does not want to know multiple
times. The % additive book came into service on 1 October 1940 and
went out of service on 31 January 1941. It increased the size of the
random number tables from 30,000 to 50,000, plus allowing the clerk
to start from any column, not column 1 of a row on the chosen page.
This further required changes to the message group where the sender
told the receiver what random numbers were used. Helps explain why
the USN had less than 10% of the book after 4 months.

I guess in March 1941, USN came under command of Yamamato and
he stopped all code recovering work as that could be dangerous for IJN
in nearing conflict.

This would presumably explain the IJN conspiracy to lose at Midway.

Thats your current position absent your detractors.

Yes folks, Denyav needs to do both sides of the debate, it stops
the facts intruding.

Truly amazing position indeed.

Translation, Denyav now needs to reply to himself in order to look
like he has any facts.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email