For Keith Willshaw...

This took 5 minutes of basic cut and paste of deleted words back into the text.

deleted text,

"As usual most of my words are deleted, new tactic time though, simply
lie about what has been written. Denyav has decided to go back to
a message I wrote on June 14, bypassing the JN-25 information I
posted more recently. I await with interest his retrieval of information
I sent in say 1990 as another desperate tactic to avoid actually answering.

"I expect him to heroically delete my reply and the heroically repeat he
is repeating his same junk. Two heroic acts means another self
awarded medal."

Denyav wrote in message ...
In Plain English you will continue to deny what really happened in the days
prior to Pearl Harbor.

In plain English Denyav does not have a clue.

Nice to see you in the forum again,I guess you dont work,oops I meant post,on
weekends.

This is becoming very funny, ever heard of a weekend away?
Ever heard of the idea things can wait a few days?

Denyav has decided this is my work it seems, which is great, I
will get his address and send him the bill.

deleted text,

Yes folks, Denyav's word is classified by him as Holy writ, no proof
is required. Much laughter generated. I am still waiting for proof
about what I am supposed to have dated the McCollum memo. I
like the way Denyav assumes because he needs to hide the truth
the same applies to others.

In plain English Denyav does not have a clue, he needs to
pretend what people say.

Of course all those people say is IRRELEVANT for you.

No what the people are saying does not match what Denyav is
saying.

Unlike some gov't employees who say what they supposed to say,
even if they dont believe to what they say,I, like the majority of people
find them utmostly relevant

You see folks, Denyav has decided where I work without proof and
has to pretend he is a majority.

Being a custodian of conspiracies is a tough job nowadays,I guess.

Denyav is into self pity. The conspiracy to lie about a conspiracy.

In plain English Denyav needs to delete the evidence.

Since when detractors are called evidence?

As people can see the evidence is deleted.

Denyav is admitting here he does not believe what he posts,
and assumes others have the same tactics

Even your pretty skilful use of detractors could not hide the fact,that you
said in your last post that in March 41,US stopped recovering (I said no)
whereas now you admit that recovery work did not stop in april.
I like your detractors and salami tactic.

deleted text, to the next .

Strange that, but Denyav needs to go off and pretend about what I said,
from a post where I gave the recovered code values totals until the end
of 1941, Denyav keeps deleting the totals.

"If it did compromise the code values then it should have compromised
the A version as well, yet the USN reports knowing around 5% of the
code values when work stopped around March 1941.

Thanks for a really great laugh, they US recovered around 5,000 random
number additives of the 5 additive book, out of 50,000, the additive book
that had been in use for months before the A to B codebook change over.
This gives an idea of just how little the allies could read in early 1941
since the additives needed to be removed before the code groups could
be looked at.

This is great, this shows Denyav's techniques so well.

Firstly changing the random numbers, additives, into code values.
The random numbers, additives, are used to disguise the code
groups and need to be removed first, no additives no code groups.

Secondly ignoring the fact the "5" version of the code stopped being
used in January 1941 and the USN stopped working on the A version
in around March 1941, since the IJN decided to stop using the A code
in December 1940. Just try and pretend I am running some sort of
line the USN stopped work at that time. Above all do not even begin
to understand that Washington was weeks behind current intercepts
because they were mailed in from the Pacific.

Thirdly changing the subject. Move away from the fact that if the
failure to change additive books compromised the B code it
must have compromised the A code, since the US had only 5%
of the A code book when work ended on it around March 1941.

Trouble is folks, the key messages were not transmitted and were
anything but routine messages, even if the above statement is true.

Yes folks, Holy Writ time, no proof offered about what they could read.
By the way if it was 90% by December 1941 can you explain how this
percentage went down by April/May 1942, when the allies were trying
to figure out Midway and Coral Sea? Or that the all knowing intelligence
system missed the IJN battleships coming out at Midway and the way
the IJN carriers came into the Coral Sea? In the latter case it meant
the US carriers found themselves with the Japanese airbases in front
and the Japanese carriers behind, hence the way the tanker and
destroyer supposed to be safely in the rear were sunk first.

How about the fact just before midway the allies were intercepting
around 60% of IJN traffic and decoding about 20% of the intercepted
messages, plus gaining some parts of around 70% of messages.

deleted text,

"As of 20 April 1945 the USN found it had 35,761 additives of JN-25B7,
the version in use 1 August to 3 December 1941, with the probability
several hundred might be bad. So 70% of the additives were thought
to be known, this was upped to 47,500 by August 1945, as part of the
reworking of the messages. As of 1 December 1941 the USN thought
it knew 3,800 code group meanings.

Yes folks, the fact the IJN used the old additive book told the allies
the basic code system was still in place, 5 digit code groups with
valid numbers divisible by 3.

There was no need to worry about basic information like say the
new valid code groups were now divisible by say 2.

Just ignore the new code introduced auxiliary tables, two meanings
for the same code group, and stopped having the code groups in
alphabetical order. Just pretend the IJN radioed the code book
to the allies.

So now the lies begin. Firstly the failure to update the random number
book enabled the allies to confirm the basic system was still in place.
The valid code groups were 5 digit numbers divisible by 3. Secondly
the allies did not have all the valid random numbers, additives, used
to disguise the valid code groups, thirdly the Japanese did not put
out messages containing all 55,000 valid code group meanings in
the two months, December 1940 and January 1941.

If you would like to know the exact code groups recovered it was
"Unfinished or Continuous" [i.e., a running tally]
April 1, 1941: "approximately 300 values recovered"
May 1, 1941: "approximately 400 values recovered"
June 1, 1941: "approximately 1100 values recovered"
July 1, 1941: "approximately 1100 values recovered"
August 1, 1941: "approximately 2000 values recovered"
Sept 1, 1941: "approximately 2000 values recovered"
Oct 1, 1941: "approximately 2400 values recovered"

"Completed during October 1941"
Nov 1, 1941: "600 values recovered" [i.e., a total of 3,000 values as of
this date]

"Completed during November 1941"
Dec 1, 1941: "800 values recovered" [i.e., a total of 3,800 values as of
this date]

"Unfinished or continuous"
Jan 1, 1942: "Approximately 6,180 values recovered"

Remembering some previously assigned values could be changed
by later discoveries.

So by the end of December 1941 the allies thought they had around 7%
of the code book recovered.

Even without the typo, this comes up as page not found for me.

You are right .But I dont know why maybe only for subscribers.

Translation Denyav chooses to supply URLs with no evidence.

Yes folks, change the subject, since the Red Cross decided to
prepare in case Hawaii was attacked by air they must have been
in on the conspiracy right. After all if any arm of the US government
does the same the claim is it was part of a conspiracy.

Red Cross of 1941 was more like FEMA of 2001 than Red Cross of 2001,
which also
means that the parties interested in finding truths about 9/11 must scrunitize
FEMA more closely than CIA or FBI.

Yes folks, change the subject, since the Red Cross decided to
prepare in case Hawaii was attacked by air they must have been
in on the conspiracy right. After all if any arm of the US government
does the same the claim is it was part of a conspiracy.

Denyav is proudly announcing he does not have a clue about
book sales.
Yeah right,even a third rate documentary is breaking records.

So this documentary is on Pearl Harbor right?

Translation Denyav is delusional, as can be seen from this posting.

Accept the fact the majority on this planet do not believe to US evergreen
stories anymore (Ft.Sumter,Maine,Pearl Harbor,9/11),after 150 years you must
come up with new story line,not with the copycat versions of the original.

Translation Denyav denies the tide is in, the air is just a little wet.

By the way in case people are wondering Denyav is wandering the
conspiracy theory web sites, yet again Mark Willey's one or
conspiracy central, looking for that out of context quote to throw in.
Just type a key phrase into a search engine and see which site
Denyav is copying, watch the typos though.

Never mentions Pearl Harbor.

You are right,he did not even mentioned anything about particulars of attack,he
did not mention exact date of attack,the launch position of japanese
carriers,torpedo drop altitude selected by japanase carriers etc.

You are 100% right his words are totally irrelevant under this circumstances.

These are the words that apparently prove what Stimson knew, they have
to be deleted,

"FDR stated that we were likely to be attacked perhaps as soon as next
Monday..The question was how should we maneuver them into position of firing
the first shot without too much danger to ourselves. In spite of risk involved,
however, in letting Japanase to fire the first shot, we realized that in order
to have full support of the American people it was desirable to make sure that
the Japanese be the ones to do this so that there should remain no doubt in
anyone's mind as to who were the Aggressors"

Henry Stimson, The Secretary of War,Nov.25,1941

Notes all messages the allies decoded were released just after the war.

That means all messages the allies decoded (during war) were not released
during the war,which supports his statement in page 598.

Yes folks, remember the conspiracy to cause Pearl Harbor must
have happened pre war and that Churchill says all the decoded
messages were released.

In case people are wondering Denyav is mining the conspiracy
site of Mark Willey, the name he dare not utter, presumably he will
endorse the claim the US was trying to lose Coral Sea and Midway
as well and that the US never gave Pearl Harbor any help cracking
JN-25, the unit there had to start from scratch in December 1941.

There are more names to be added from the page if Denyav wants
to continue this line, you know the world is flat because some people
say it is.

Willey is like Stinnett, the evidence does not match the claims.


Simply put if he had the information why didn't he release it on
the floor of Congress.

I think he gave the answer to your question,namely FDR and Hull asked
him to keep the info secret.

Ah yes, so he kept the secret until he died, allowing the system to
railroad the commanders etc. etc. Dies was a very anti communist
person, the claimed information could be used to discredit much
of the democrat administration even post war, but strange to tell
the claimed information never surfaces until people are dead.


Senator Guy Gillette, who seems
to have never put the information out on the floor of the Senate. Of
course FDR is apparently told in a private, no notes meeting.

I wonder if current Senators are putting everything they know out on the Senate
floor?

Post war would be easily possible, as part of the investigations even.

Instead what was intercepted was the "winds message" set up,
the open code to be sent if communications were cut telling the
Japanese about who the Japanese were about to be at war with.

It was message to Bangkok,and in this message name of Pearl Harbor
appeared along with three others.

No.

Which Rhorpe? I presume the claimed messages sent by General
Thorpe. The problem is quite simple, the Japanese diplomatic
system did not know about the attack on Pearl Harbor, rather hard
to credit a cracked diplomatic message with having the information.

Instead what was intercepted was the "winds message" set up,
the open code to be sent if communications were cut telling the
Japanese about who the Japanese were about to be at war with.

See, Thorpe, Elliott R. East Wind Rain: The Intimate Account of an
Intelligence Officer in the Pacific, 1939-1949. Boston: Gambit, 1969.

What Popov said is irrelevant.

Given he was no where near the place, and the Germans did not
attack the target.

Of course irrelevant.

But Denyav will include it, since it was on a web site.

Which Leib? The one who is supposed to have been shown a
message by Hull? Apparently the one the IJN couriered to
Nagumo. No evidence of course.

I guess you were the courier who delivered message to Yamamato.

No, the IJN officers present told people about the communications.
This is the trouble for the conspiracy the IJN keeps shooting it down.

Oh yes, Leib waited until after Hull was dead before telling the
world of his claims. Does this make Hull a conspirator? If so
a stupid one by letting the claimed secret out?

Oh yes, apparently the New
York Times on 8 December 1941 is supposed to have published
an article claiming the, presumably Pearl Harbor, attack was
known about, time and place. Amazing how New York seems
to have missed that, similar for the rest of the US, at the time
and later during the various post

As you are proving with every post,if you want to miss or disregard
evidences,the sky is the limit.

Yes folks, the article does not appear instead we are left to believe
no one in New Your noticed it.

His diary makes it clear he was not talking about the Pearl
Harbor strike despite attempts to claim otherwise, after
some enhancements to the text.

His original diary is available in Dutch archieves (in Dutch of course),if you
are interested I can post it here.(in Dutch)

This should be funny, presumably Denyav can read Dutch,
including the Captain's shorthand.

Actually I have not quoted the conspiracy custodians, that
firstly requires a conspiracy to take custody of. Meantime
Denyav quotes the conspiracy custodians, the ones who have
custody of the conspiracy to lie about the events of 1941, people
like Stinnett and Willey

Simply put,people do not want to hear lies only any longer.

Denyav however will continue.

At least I dont get paid for that.

Denyav however will continue with the lies.

Geoffrey Sinclair
Remove the nb for email.