Kawa rough landing?

Continuing the thread drift:Â* One day, many years ago, my partner in an
LS-6a asked me if I'd ever stalled it in landing configuration. He said
it would depart in a lively manner.Â* So, one day at the end of a flight,
and with altitude to spare, I practiced traffic pattern stalls in the
landing configuration.Â* ...And it was lively!Â* After that, I paid a lot
more attention to AoA and yaw string in the pattern.

On 9/20/2019 9:09 AM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Friday, September 20, 2019 at 2:18:55 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 20, 2019 at 4:31:25 AM UTC+1, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 6:25:24 AM UTC-5, wrote:
To paraphrase advice from Wolfgang Langewiesche in Stick and Rudder: if *anything* surprising ever happens in a turn immediately unload (i.e aerodynamically) the wing.

IMO it should be ingrained in every pilot's mind that the instant he is surprised during a turn the he should move the stick forward - only after that should he analyse the situation.
I try to teach myself to respond to a wing drop with stick forward and slightly into the wing drop (to reduce the AOA) and opposite (usually top) rudder. It's a good reflex to build.

Andy Blackburn
9B
I completely agree with that Andy. And you don't always have to be flying to do that, the reflex can be reinforced sitting at home repeatedly rehearsing it in your mind.
You can also fly Condor which is a GREAT tool, but nothing beats spins in the real aircraft. For the first ten years of my soaring career I made spin training an annual occurrence, in part because the instructor is the best pilot I have ever flown with. I stopped a nimbus 4 that departed within ¼ turn above a ridge, because of that training. Twenty-five years later I still make an excuse to fly with this semi-retired instructor on occasion, more aerobatics. And I still learn something new each time we fly. Slow flight is also a great was to get to know an aircraft.

--
Dan, 5J

wrote on 9/19/2019 4:07 AM:
2g to answer your question, I can recover from a 1/2 turn spin within 150ft but my response has to be instinctive and instantaneous, which it has gotten thru lots of practice.
You never answered my querry, when is the last time you practiced spins, spin entry, and recovery? Do you intimately know the subtleties of your birds behavior when super slow? Whens the last time you've taken 10 pattern tows and seen how steep you can approach a landing spot and stop short? Do you know how short you can stop? Do you practice very very minimum energy landings to be able to fly the ragged edges of control when you really need to?

These are things every xc pilot should do yearly and definitely when in a new bird.

I disagree. Your level of commitment to landing skills is impressive but not
necessary for safe cross-country flying. I manage my risk by keeping safe landing
places (ie, airports or fields I can easily land in) within easy reach, so I avoid
the need to have such superior landing skills. I also fly a glider with "superior
landing skills" (ASH26E, previously an ASW20C) and the majority of my flying is in
benign areas; when it isn't, I raise my margins to compensate for the difficult area.

For practice, I occasionally do coordinated turns, slowing until a wing drops; and
before every landing, I choose the approach speed, aim , touch down, and stopping
point. Most are standard patterns begun at 1000' agl on downwind, but I mix it up
with lower or shorter patterns, and "expedited arrivals".

The above has worked well for 40+ years (and 1000's of hours) of flying. Staying
safe is almost entirely a matter of operating within your limits, rather than
being highly skilled.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Saturday, September 21, 2019 at 6:57:12 AM UTC+3, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Staying
safe is almost entirely a matter of operating within your limits, rather than
being highly skilled.


This is so true. Another truth is that pilots peak at their flying skills pretty early. I'm mid-forties and already accepted that my reaction time, memory, capability to observe things, flying string centered all them time etc. are all past prime, even when flying steady 100-200 hrs every single year. Skill of pilot DOES NOT cumulate over decades. All you can improve is the judgement and that includes recognizing that you could outland to a dime 20 years ago after engine failing to start, and cannot do it anymore.

On 9/21/2019 3:58 AM, krasw wrote:
On Saturday, September 21, 2019 at 6:57:12 AM UTC+3, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Staying safe is almost entirely a matter of operating within your limits,
rather than being highly skilled.


This is so true. Another truth is that pilots peak at their flying skills
pretty early. I'm mid-forties and already accepted that my reaction time,
memory, capability to observe things, flying string centered all them time
etc. are all past prime, even when flying steady 100-200 hrs every single
year. Skill of pilot DOES NOT cumulate over decades. All you can improve is
the judgement and that includes recognizing that you could outland to a
dime 20 years ago after engine failing to start, and cannot do it anymore.

At least one non-pilot agrees! "A man's got to know his limitations." - Clint
Eastwood. I'm with Clint on this one. :-)

Bob W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours." (Richard Bach, "Illusions" 1977)

On 9/21/2019 7:30 AM, BobW wrote:
On 9/21/2019 3:58 AM, krasw wrote:
On Saturday, September 21, 2019 at 6:57:12 AM UTC+3, Eric Greenwell
wrote:
Staying safe is almost entirely a matter of operating within your
limits, rather than being highly skilled.


This is so true. Another truth is that pilots peak at their flying
skills pretty early. I'm mid-forties and already accepted that my
reaction time, memory, capability to observe things, flying string
centered all them time etc. are all past prime, even when flying steady
100-200 hrs every single year. Skill of pilot DOES NOT cumulate over
decades. All you can improve is the judgement and that includes
recognizing that you could outland to a dime 20 years ago after engine
failing to start, and cannot do it anymore.

At least one non-pilot agrees! "A man's got to know his limitations." -
Clint Eastwood. I'm with Clint on this one. :-)

And at least one other pilot agrees. Check out the video embedded in the link
discussing the recent loss of a highly-modified Wilga...

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/09...e-off-in-reno/

Congratulations (and condolences) to Mike Patey (whom I've never met) - PIC,
owner-builder of the destroyed plane - for his accomplishments, not the least
of which is brutal honesty with himself. IMO, pilots of every stripe would be
well-served if the trait were universal.

Be careful, have fun, and - if given the opportunity - learn from your
mistakes. Even better, learn from *others* mistakes!

Bob W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

I watched the crash video and, as soon as I saw the left wing rise and
the right suspension collapse /_before advancing power for takeoff_/, I
thought to myself, "Take it back to the hangar".Â* I think there was a
bit of hubris at work there.

On 9/21/2019 8:04 AM, BobW wrote:
On 9/21/2019 7:30 AM, BobW wrote:
On 9/21/2019 3:58 AM, krasw wrote:
On Saturday, September 21, 2019 at 6:57:12 AM UTC+3, Eric Greenwell
wrote:
Staying safe is almost entirely a matter of operating within your
limits, rather than being highly skilled.


This is so true. Another truth is that pilots peak at their flying
skills pretty early. I'm mid-forties and already accepted that my
reaction time, memory, capability to observe things, flying string
centered all them time etc. are all past prime, even when flying steady
100-200 hrs every single year. Skill of pilot DOES NOT cumulate over
decades. All you can improve is the judgement and that includes
recognizing that you could outland to a dime 20 years ago after engine
failing to start, and cannot do it anymore.

At least one non-pilot agrees! "A man's got to know his limitations." -
Clint Eastwood. I'm with Clint on this one. :-)

And at least one other pilot agrees. Check out the video embedded in
the link discussing the recent loss of a highly-modified Wilga...

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/09...e-off-in-reno/


Congratulations (and condolences) to Mike Patey (whom I've never met)
- PIC, owner-builder of the destroyed plane - for his accomplishments,
not the least of which is brutal honesty with himself. IMO, pilots of
every stripe would be well-served if the trait were universal.

Be careful, have fun, and - if given the opportunity - learn from your
mistakes. Even better, learn from *others* mistakes!

Bob W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


--
Dan, 5J

On Saturday, September 21, 2019 at 6:30:33 AM UTC-7, BobW wrote:
On 9/21/2019 3:58 AM, krasw wrote:
On Saturday, September 21, 2019 at 6:57:12 AM UTC+3, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Staying safe is almost entirely a matter of operating within your limits,
rather than being highly skilled.


This is so true. Another truth is that pilots peak at their flying skills
pretty early. I'm mid-forties and already accepted that my reaction time,
memory, capability to observe things, flying string centered all them time
etc. are all past prime, even when flying steady 100-200 hrs every single
year. Skill of pilot DOES NOT cumulate over decades. All you can improve is
the judgement and that includes recognizing that you could outland to a
dime 20 years ago after engine failing to start, and cannot do it anymore.

At least one non-pilot agrees! "A man's got to know his limitations." - Clint
Eastwood. I'm with Clint on this one. :-)

Bob W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

Those are the words of Harry Callahan, not Clint Eastwood.