Gliding risk....

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 9:54:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I quit reading when the data presented listed motorcycling safer than ‘gliding’. By 100%.
Hmmm.....don’t think so.
R

Since 1980ies motorcycle fatalities have increased 20x!!! These and open cockpit high CG ATVs have become the redneck population control method. States still allow these Neanderthals to ride without helmets. Now motocross, an entire whole another story, few fatalities, break every long bone, but you are in control and not at the mercy of some 20/400 vision Buick/Caddy driving nonagenarian cleared by his ophthalmologist.

On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 8:33:41 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 9:54:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I quit reading when the data presented listed motorcycling safer than ‘gliding’. By 100%.
Hmmm.....don’t think so.
R

Since 1980ies motorcycle fatalities have increased 20x!!! These and open cockpit high CG ATVs have become the redneck population control method. States still allow these Neanderthals to ride without helmets. Now motocross, an entire whole another story, few fatalities, break every long bone, but you are in control and not at the mercy of some 20/400 vision Buick/Caddy driving nonagenarian cleared by his ophthalmologist.

It ain't rednecks dying. The motorcycle fatality increase is from yuppies and boomers getting their first bike, a Harley of course, in middle age. Motocross kids do OK, banged up no worse than playing high school football.

I grew up racing motocross in Michigan, no learning in an ASK21 in CAPat age 60..
But motocross has fatalities, tracks are much more technical and the the bikes are phenomenal. Speed is way up

https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic...-in-motocross/

Not always Harleys.Â* I'd say crotch rockets are a bigger threat from my
observation.Â* I recall a young guy at work who told me he'd ridden his
super bike at 180 mph on I-81 south of Syracuse.Â* I wonder if he's still
alive...

On 11/8/2019 8:58 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 8:33:41 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 9:54:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I quit reading when the data presented listed motorcycling safer than ‘gliding’. By 100%.
Hmmm.....don’t think so.
R
Since 1980ies motorcycle fatalities have increased 20x!!! These and open cockpit high CG ATVs have become the redneck population control method. States still allow these Neanderthals to ride without helmets. Now motocross, an entire whole another story, few fatalities, break every long bone, but you are in control and not at the mercy of some 20/400 vision Buick/Caddy driving nonagenarian cleared by his ophthalmologist.
It ain't rednecks dying. The motorcycle fatality increase is from yuppies and boomers getting their first bike, a Harley of course, in middle age. Motocross kids do OK, banged up no worse than playing high school football.

--
Dan, 5J

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 10:52:42 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
Not always Harleys.Â* I'd say crotch rockets are a bigger threat from my
observation.Â* I recall a young guy at work who told me he'd ridden his
super bike at 180 mph on I-81 south of Syracuse.Â* I wonder if he's still
alive...

Starting to ride motorcycles in middle age is definitely risky. So is starting to ride motorcycles on public roads at *any* age without first getting a good bit of experience off road and gaining muscle memory in how to handle skids and slides and maximum braking in questionable traction and how to fall off when it's inevitable. All of which is best done while you are young and pliable, but is in any event necessary at any age if you want to survive your first on-road "situation".

180 mph is pretty quick. I've never done that. I've driven a car and ridden a motorcycle at 160 mph on a public road. Not as a matter of habit -- just once each. There's no reason for it to be particularly risky if you pick the right place (straight bit of motorway without exits), time (4 AM midweek), and vehicle. And of course be sober. If it all goes wrong then 80 mph kills you just as dead.

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 8:49:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
For those who haven’t seen it....
https://chessintheair.com/the-risk-o...-what-we-love/

Interesting stats. Counts of friends I've lost a few different ways:
- driving: 0
- motorcycle: 0
- bicycling: 1
- medical malpractice: 2
- hang-gliding (where I don't know so many): a couple
- general aviation: a few
- gliding: 25

After the first few friends I lost in gliding, I wrote this (recently reprinted in Soaring):
http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...g_May_1987.pdf

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave

Interesting stats. Counts of friends I've lost a few different ways:

- gliding: 25

After the first few friends I lost in gliding, I wrote this (recently reprinted in Soaring):
http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...g_May_1987.pdf

Mr. Nadler,
Thanks for taking the time to write the article and the lessons it draws. Just to be on the safe side, though, how does one "unfriend" you? (just kidding).

This article is the most realistic yet somber risk analysis I’ve encountered so far. And those who believe that soaring is safer than motorcycling must have not been exposed to soaring long enough. In fact I believe it is much more than twice as dangerous as motorcycling.
That said, I disagree with some of the conclusions. I’ve been involved enough in hang gliding and paragliding to conclude that hey are statistically safer than soaring as long as you only count fatalities. The risk of serious injury is much higher of course.
Also comparing to skydiving and base jumping is unfair since those are very short activities measured in minutes. Most jumpers will not even get close to the 1000 hours base line comparison in their life time while most soaring pilots have a good chance to get there in a decade. Number of jumps will be a better way to compare. In my opinion number of days of participating in any activity may be a better common denominator. But the overall risk per hours of flying sounds about right to me. So for an average active glider pilot who flies an average of 100 hours per year all his life (say 50 years of flying) has about 10% chance of dying flying which indeed match the reality. About 10-20% of deceased glider pilots I knew or heard about died from soaring. This is close to the risk I believe I am taking by flying often all my life.
That said, I think the age comparison is a bit overly pessimistic. Even though I fly over 300 hours per year I would like to believe that I have better chance to survive another year than a 90+ years old in general. Or maybe not?

Ramy (trying to beat the odds after 40 years and 8000 hours of soaring hang gliders and sailplanes...)

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 6:57:36 PM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 8:49:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
For those who haven’t seen it....
https://chessintheair.com/the-risk-o...-what-we-love/

Interesting stats. Counts of friends I've lost a few different ways:
- driving: 0
- motorcycle: 0
- bicycling: 1
- medical malpractice: 2
- hang-gliding (where I don't know so many): a couple
- general aviation: a few
- gliding: 25

After the first few friends I lost in gliding, I wrote this (recently reprinted in Soaring):
http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...g_May_1987.pdf

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave

Life is dangerous. We (community) lost a five year old riding a scooter upstairs at home, he went over banister, through the chandelier. We have lost of few others riding scooters on the boardwalk. A ninth month old was just dropped through an open window 115 feet to her death. Cherish and honor the life you have, grow, learn, experience. I have about 7,000 hours spread throughout anything that goes up including warbirds and helicopters. Never crashes an airplane, but I am still dealing with injuries suffered decades ago in an auto accident. I have not known anyone that was swatted out of the sky by the hand of fate, but I sure have witnessed a few natural selection events.

Dave,

I have just read you PDF 'On Safer Soaring' I found it to be a very good
read. There are plenty of observations in regards to planning and
decision points the members at my club could learn from.
I will certainly recommend it in my next CFI's news.

http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...aring_May_1987.
pdf

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave