Gliding risk....

Dave,

I have just read you PDF 'On Safer Soaring' I found it to be a very good
read. There are plenty of observations in regards to planning and
decision points the members at my club could learn from.
I will certainly recommend it in my next CFI's news.

http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...aring_May_1987.
pdf

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave

Yes, but I LOVE to fly.Â* I never consider risks, I just keep in practice
and don't do dumb **** (any more) to mitigate those risks. Oh, and I've
been riding motorcycles for 50 years, from dirt to my present Harley.

On 10/31/2019 8:39 AM, Ian Gallacher wrote:
Dave,

I have just read you PDF 'On Safer Soaring' I found it to be a very good
read. There are plenty of observations in regards to planning and
decision points the members at my club could learn from.
I will certainly recommend it in my next CFI's news.

http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...aring_May_1987.
pdf
Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave


--
Dan, 5J

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 7:57:36 PM UTC-6, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 8:49:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
For those who haven’t seen it....
https://chessintheair.com/the-risk-o...-what-we-love/

Interesting stats. Counts of friends I've lost a few different ways:
- driving: 0
- motorcycle: 0
- bicycling: 1
- medical malpractice: 2
- hang-gliding (where I don't know so many): a couple
- general aviation: a few
- gliding: 25

After the first few friends I lost in gliding, I wrote this (recently reprinted in Soaring):
http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...g_May_1987.pdf

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave

I personally quit riding (and racing) motorcycles in 1973 after losing three friends in one summer. The BBC had an interesting series on motorcycle racing, following eight young racers as they entered the sport. IIRC, the final episode had an epilogue that stated all eight were deceased within two years, all due to motorcycle accidents. To my mind, racing motorcycles is far more dangerous than racing gliders.

That said, the number of soaring pilots I've known that have come to grief I could count on one hand for many years. That number has jumped, but that's because I know more pilots than I did formerly. The rate has not shown much variation though. Few were racing, unless you count racing the sun or the clock.

There was an actuarial table published many years ago that listed the chance of accidental death, which was 1/1500 overall. Death in a glider was listed as 1/1800. Haven't been able to find anything similar in recent years.

So, in the years since I've quit riding/racing motorcycles, I've known only one additional fatality on a motorcycle.

Since I've been in SSA leadership and paying attention, far more glider pilots are succumbing to age and infirmities than in flight accidents. It's the company you keep.

You all fly safely and sanely now and please, only fly if you are fit to do so.

Happy landings,

Frank Whiteley

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 8:57:36 PM UTC-5, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 8:49:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
For those who haven’t seen it....
https://chessintheair.com/the-risk-o...-what-we-love/

Interesting stats. Counts of friends I've lost a few different ways:
- driving: 0
- motorcycle: 0
- bicycling: 1
- medical malpractice: 2
- hang-gliding (where I don't know so many): a couple
- general aviation: a few
- gliding: 25

After the first few friends I lost in gliding, I wrote this (recently reprinted in Soaring):
http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...g_May_1987.pdf

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave

A few years ago, I sat next to Judge McWhorter during the SSA convention safety presentation, at which gliding fatalities were related to hours of exposure to risk (in flight).
Judge's career has been in coal-mining safety. Listening to the numbers, he said, "Soaring is more dangerous than coal mining."

A few years ago, I sat next to Judge McWhorter during the SSA convention safety presentation, at which gliding fatalities were related to hours of exposure to risk (in flight).
Judge's career has been in coal-mining safety. Listening to the numbers, he said, "Soaring is more dangerous than coal mining."

As somebody in the mining industry in South Africa (which has worse mining safety figures than the U.S.) - I can vouch for the fact that coal mining is pretty safe when considering the statistics.

Clinton Birch

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 5:49:22 PM UTC-7, wrote:
For those who haven’t seen it....

https://chessintheair.com/the-risk-o...-what-we-love/

I think this is a very useful analysis. Obviously, in every sport, individuals vary greatly in the degree to which they expose themself to risk and how well they manage risk. Unfortunately, all of us pilots probably think we are way above average and thus less exposed to risk. As a community we would benefit by explicitly and systematically evaluating risks of each type of operation.
KD

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 8:49:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
For those who haven’t seen it....

https://chessintheair.com/the-risk-o...-what-we-love/

I personally appreciate this information, having known 5 individuals that have lost their lives in gliders. Two were defined as medical casualties, heart attack or stroke in flight, both at tow release. One I define as being stupid and actually going in upside down at a high rate of speed. The other two negligent, elevator not connected and the other plane ole screwed up. Know the conditions and pay attention to detail.

It would be interesting to know the history how the FAA came to the decision to regulate the minimum age (14) to solo gliders vs. powered aircrafts, cars, and motorcycles being at 16 or older. I am afraid if I do read the data that I will come to the fearful realization that all of you stink at being good airmen.
Here is my 320 risk list....with worst at top.

1. Motorcycles
2. Driving I-95 south anywhere south of New York.
3. Driving to/fro glider contest.
4. Eating Bubba Burgers with bacon.
5. Dumping black water without bio-hazard suit on.
6. Working off top rung of ladder.
7. Angry Mrs. R
319. Flying gliders with exceptional racing airmen.
320. Sitting on the couch waiting for death.

That ought to do it. The OP must be an insurance agent. Wait, the solicitation is coming.
This thread should be 86 for lack happy talk.

R

In all this discussion, there is one aspect missing: flying skills or level of practice
The stats imply a more or less linear risk. Meaning that the more you fly the higher is your risk and vice versa, simply because the more hours you do it, the more hours you are exposed to a certain threat.
But I’m convinced that the risk of a low time flying pilot is much higher than the one of a pilot that practices maybe one hundred hours of flying per year. Then, with an increasing amount of hours, the risk may rise up again because the longer exposure to threat outweights the slowly increasing practise.
In other words, I think with low hours the risk is high, with more practise the risk decreases and finally it rises again.
Of course I have no figures and data to proove that, but I think my feeling is not far off the truth.

Stefan you would think, but the stats show complete opposite. The majority of casualties are high time experienced pilots, including commercial and instructors. At the same time there are more students and inexperience pilots flying than high experience.

Ramy