FAI ratifies records of illegal flights.

Jan wrote: I had no contact with the SA NAC on this and I don't think the were
involved until after the record was ratified.
Further more, The SC3 is leading and not the claim form.

Jan:
I am sorry but you are incorrect. I have substantial experience with record flying in SA. The very first step in the record ratification process for a foreign pilot is the submission of the claim to the SA NAC - which is how they certify the OO's appointment by them on the Form E, and they review all matters for establishment of a new SA record. There is a short list of individuals who can serve as OOs for records in SA and that person's status must be certified by the NAC as part of the record claim. As a further part of that process they review all of the work of the OO. They create a full dossier of the flight and that dossier (with the official stamp of the SA NAC on Form E) is what is given to the resident country's NAC - and they forward it to the FAI. We have not seen any of that dossier. I would make no decision based on "what somebody said, somebody else said, many years ago." I would want to see the dossier which would include a second FR file if there was one. It is the submitted paperwork that matters here (which is why we are required to submit record claims in writing) - and we have not seen it.

But, I think that you have quite made up your mind on this and further dialog is pointless. Good luck.
ROY

None of this really matters, whether it was a bonified record or not. Someone is gonna come along in the next year or so and beat it, then the old record won’t matter.

Here in the states many a past record was made by flying late into the evening or by breaking past 18k into controlled airspace or by sneaking thru lower level controlled airspace. This was all in the days before gps. The records were all approved but in time they were surpassed. Guys need to spend less time worrying about some guy getting a break by the powers that be, and spend more time going out and breaking the record themselves.

Those that do, do.........those that don’t, talk about it and criticize the doers.

There is also another aspect of the question: I suppose the flight was scheduled to end well before the end of day.

Where was the glider when it became clear that the flight would end just after the official end of the day? If at that moment the goal airfield was the nearest available, the PIC could exercise his right to diverge from the rules in order to follow what he deemed the safest option (exceeding the end of day by a few minutes to land on a known airfield vs. landing out in the dusk on an unknown surface).

In all the countries I regularly fly, this possibility to diverge from the rules is explicitly mentioned under the privileges and obligations of the PIC. You have of course to be able to justify your decision before a board of inquiry if the air administration deems it necessary. In the US, this rule would be under FAR 91.3. I suppose the same kind of rule applies in SA.

It seems to me this rule supersedes all the others...

Op 12/29/2019 om 00:36 schreef Roy B.:

Jan wrote: I had no contact with the SA NAC on this and I don't think the were
involved until after the record was ratified.
Further more, The SC3 is leading and not the claim form.

Jan:
I am sorry but you are incorrect. I have substantial experience with record flying in SA. The very first step in the record ratification process for a foreign pilot is the submission of the claim to the SA NAC - which is how they certify the OO's appointment by them on the Form E, and they review all matters for establishment of a new SA record. There is a short list of individuals who can serve as OOs for records in SA and that person's status must be certified by the NAC as part of the record claim. As a further part of that process they review all of the work of the OO. They create a full dossier of the flight and that dossier (with the official stamp of the SA NAC on Form E) is what is given to the resident country's NAC - and they forward it to the FAI. We have not seen any of that dossier. I would make no decision based on "what somebody said, somebody else said, many years ago." I would want to see the dossier which would include a second FR file if there was one. It is the submitted paperwork that matters here (which is why we are required to submit record claims in writing) - and we have not seen it.

But, I think that you have quite made up your mind on this and further dialog is pointless. Good luck.
ROY



Roy,

You are mistaken.
The SSSA has an agreement with the Dutch NAC and delegates the record
approval. I flew over 60 Dutch records in SA and that was the procedure.
And, indeed, further dialog with you is pointless.
So, ask the FAI yourself why the record was ratified.
Good luck.