Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 6:46:54 PM UTC-8, Mike Borgelt wrote:
Next batch of Dynamis varios planned to be available no later than mid April 2020.

Zero sensitivity to horizontal gusts, excellent total energy, wind vector in real time.

57mm or 80mm size. Interfaces with phones, tablets, Oudie for controlling bugs, ballast and MacCready etc. or can be controlled by small Glare shield controller/display.

Logarithmic or linear scale available.

See www.borgeltinstruments.com B600/B800 is the vario part. Dynamis box lives behind panel.

Also Dynamis flight demonstration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiSCU84mCng&t=348s

Mike Borgelt

Borgelt Instruments



On Thursday, 23 January 2020 23:39:31 UTC+10, Jim Hogue wrote:
Any suggestions? Either currently available or coming in the near future (next year or so) would be ok, I am not in a rush. Prefer it would fit in one 57mm hole.

I take care of navigation and tasks with other standalone devices (full on OpenVario with its own vario/STF sensor board, and a Kobo backup) so I don’t really need any nav functions. Above all I want the best total energy and gust compensated technology available, the best to allow me to understand airmass movement while cruising across the full speed range. I want MacReady speed-to-fly function (although I use that as advisory information only, I don’t aggressively dolphin fly...). I also need climb/cruise and airmass awareness audio functionality of course, head-out-of-the-cockpit being best.

I fly an ASH-26E, and I would prefer a system that can work off just pitot and static, avoiding the vertical fin mounted TE probe (which gets hammered during engine runs). This is because thermalling during powered climb can be important to me when flying out of high density altitude airports. But if using the TE probe gets me significantly better airmass awareness in cruise, I would take that.

I am attracted to the FLARM voice warnings that the S8/S10 units give, but I would do without this in order to get the best airmass awareness.

My OpenVario gives me a thermalling assist graphic which seems to work great, but if the new system offers improvement here I would like that also..

Please offer you experiences and knowledge here. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Jim J6

I'd be interested to know more about this instrument, starting with the price. Also the principal behind its operation. That would make it seem less like vaporware.

The quality of earlier Borgelt varios suggest that the Dynamis is unlikely to be vaporware. However user reports and price info would be welcome.

On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 8:41:09 AM UTC-5, waremark wrote:
The quality of earlier Borgelt varios suggest that the Dynamis is unlikely to be vaporware. However user reports and price info would be welcome.

It is likely to be a good variometer, but not many will spend over $5k on a vario that has not been tested and compared to AirGlide vario that costs much less and looks much better. I would also hope the new veriometer would have a better user interface, and not require clunky additional pieces that one would have to install to control it or rely on software like Oudie, very unattractive solution.

Mike is a good guy but his website gives no useful information, with last update 18 months ago.

Andrzej is correct. The Borgelt vario is hopefully a good vario, but it is unlikely to find much acceptance. I offered to pay for all shipping costs to try a unit and was informed that Borgelt has never offered units for testing. I had flown with a B50 for many years and had hoped that the new vario would provide an opertunity for Borgelt to begin penetrating the market again. I have been able to test fly most other varios in the past. As an engineer, when a company is not will to let you test what they are selling it is a red flag.

1. Units need to be made available for testing.
2. The user interface needs a complete overhaul to be streamlined like all other modern varios. Today we expect a vario to provide much more information than 20 years ago all in a single package without an external readout that doesn't even fit a modern panel.

I hope the Borgelt vario is as good as claimed and they will invest in putting it in an improved user interface.

In terms of air-mass sensing, I found the Air Glide S to be on par with the ClearNav-Vario. The CNv was easier to install, but the wind calculation did not work well. I also found the Air Glide to be easier to use and of a much better quality of the hardware.

However, an old Zander ZS1 is still an excellent device for air-mass sensing. Wouldn't replace it with any of the two above unless I have to.

On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 5:39:31 AM UTC-8, Jim Hogue wrote:
Any suggestions? Either currently available or coming in the near future (next year or so) would be ok, I am not in a rush. Prefer it would fit in one 57mm hole.

I take care of navigation and tasks with other standalone devices (full on OpenVario with its own vario/STF sensor board, and a Kobo backup) so I don’t really need any nav functions. Above all I want the best total energy and gust compensated technology available, the best to allow me to understand airmass movement while cruising across the full speed range. I want MacReady speed-to-fly function (although I use that as advisory information only, I don’t aggressively dolphin fly...). I also need climb/cruise and airmass awareness audio functionality of course, head-out-of-the-cockpit being best.

I fly an ASH-26E, and I would prefer a system that can work off just pitot and static, avoiding the vertical fin mounted TE probe (which gets hammered during engine runs). This is because thermalling during powered climb can be important to me when flying out of high density altitude airports. But if using the TE probe gets me significantly better airmass awareness in cruise, I would take that.

I am attracted to the FLARM voice warnings that the S8/S10 units give, but I would do without this in order to get the best airmass awareness.

My OpenVario gives me a thermalling assist graphic which seems to work great, but if the new system offers improvement here I would like that also.

Please offer you experiences and knowledge here. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Jim J6

A couple of other points for Jim: The Air Avionics has very good voice warnings of Flarm and ADSB targets, spoilers open, gear down, etc. It is possible to thermal with the inertial air mass sensors alone (no pneumatics needed) with the engine boom deployed.

An interesting thing about pneumatic noise from the engine boom is that the signal required is still present, just very noisy. Using the old Winpilot Thermal Maximizer (still the best) or the pretty good copy on the CN vario, you can mind the thermal center correction arrow ignoring the noisy data itself and thermal quite successfully. The software integrates out the noise.. This is true regardless of the vario input - at least I've done it routinely with a 302/Winpilot in the old days and the CN now.

Jim H and Jim, I wonder if this generation of glider guiders could even find or center a thermal using a simple mechanical vario lol How far we have advanced but also how far we have digressed in skills.

On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 2:48:34 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Jim H and Jim, I wonder if this generation of glider guiders could even find or center a thermal using a simple mechanical vario lol How far we have advanced but also how far we have digressed in skills.

Haha! For me, it seems like finding the sweet air is getting more difficult every year! And I don't even have a mechanical vario in my '26, not enough room in the panel, haha. I really ought to fly the other '26 (the club's 1-26) more often, and without a battery, to prove to myself I can still do it "old school"....

One thing I have always found difficult is sorting out what the airmass is doing when I am cruising at speeds above about 80 knots, and in the presence of gusts and turbulence. Enlisting new technology to help me here...

Cheers,
Jim J6

Truth there Jim, even though I have the 302 setup as super netto in cruise mode, I tend to use my behind to tell me if its worth stopping.

On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 3:48:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Jim H and Jim, I wonder if this generation of glider guiders could even find or center a thermal using a simple mechanical vario lol How far we have advanced but also how far we have digressed in skills.

I suspect that many have not calibrated their Alpha Sierra Sierra sensors anytime recently. Failure to calibrate these sensors leaves one totally digitally dependent.
Risky and prone to long term failure.
UH