The Decline of Soaring Awards

I agree with Daniel. I did all my XC training on Condor, and went on my first XC flight in a Grob a year after my rating. XC training is about decision making.

Fly Condor with TeamXC. You get about 4 hrs of XC training a week.

On Tuesday, March 24, 2020 at 8:39:40 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
Well, I was on your side until you said, "retired old men sitting on a
nest egg".Â* That's a perfect description of me.Â* I worked long and hard
for what I have and I deeply resent the "gimme" attitude of a lot of
today's younger folk.

Having said that, I and a lot of my peers, learned cross country soaring
on our own, by trial and error, or with a mentor who would lead or
follow along on a flight and give advice.Â* Take a look at the cross
country soaring chapter of The American Soaring Handbook. There's all
the information you need to fly cross country.Â* And, no, it's not to my
knowledge available for display on your smart phone. Get off your ass,
quit complaining, and do something for yourself.

I know it's hard to hear that, but you can't always be led by the nose.

Dan, 5J

Thanks for your feedback, Dan. I apologize if I offended you (or anyone else that resembles that remark). That was not my intent. However, I am frustrated by the rising cost of so many things in soaring. I too, deeply resent the "gimme" attitude of so many younger folks today, and my comment about the nest egg was in no way intended to sound demanding of a hand-out, but rather that it is getting more difficult to start something or branch out from the normal operations unless you are sitting on a pile of money.

The idea of practicing with Condor really appeals to me. So does the idea of using a 1-26. However, here again, the price seems to be slowly climbing for a decent one of these too. Tackling the problem of instructors who feel incapable of teaching XC--well that's another matter I guess. But I like the idea of partnering with another member who does do XC to sit in the back seat of the 2-33.

John early A and B models can be had pretty reasonably. I just got a B for 4k. Sure shes dirty n needs sprucing up but nothing major. Great thing about these birds is the ratty ones perform just as good as the clean ones, its the guy sitting behind the stick that matters lol.

Even if u find one that needs some fabric work, that is not expensive and u can do it yourself with a little tutoring in your garage. If/when u get serious about finding a 1-26 drop me a line. I will be happy to help u find one and also put u intouch with some 1-26 guys up in WA.
Dan

John,

With regard to the Lark: our club had one and I enjoyed flying it for local cross country. At the time there was a lot of reluctance to go fare due to the crew needed for retrieve, but with a little practice it's not too bad.. It is a bit heavier than a G103, but it does fly well, has retractable gear for practice, and flap that do help it slow for smaller thermals. Good for practice!

I'm in the Portland Oregon area and have specialized in XC training for 16 years. Look me up on the SSA member search. Contest number 4M, Mike Bamberg. I could take a road trip up to WA to fly if your club permits. (after the COVID-19 lockdowns are lifted).

Hey John,

Regarding price, it all depends on what you are looking for.

A really nice 1-26E, full decked out with all the bells and whistles, parachute, and oxygen will run you upwards of $12,500, sure. Heck, you can get a zero-timed 1-26 from K&L Schweizer for 25k if you really want to splurge.

But you can get an airworthy beater for $4-5000 too. Projects for less.

I know of an airworthy Ka-6 that recently sold for $4000. A Ka-8 in a barn that could probably had for free to simply get it out of the guy's life.

If you want an airworthy single-seater on the cheap, they're out there.

All the best,
Daniel

Thank you, Daniel! Good to know I am not the only one who keeps tabs on these old birds!

Steve Leonard

I'm over it now, John.Â* I was in a cranky mood this morning as I
prepared to go into town to get a cancerous piece of my ear removed (one
of the benefits of being old and spending a lot of time in the sun).Â*
Your apology is sheepishly accepted and please accept mine for unloading
on you like that.

Dan

On 3/24/2020 12:37 PM, John Foster wrote:
On Tuesday, March 24, 2020 at 8:39:40 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
Well, I was on your side until you said, "retired old men sitting on a
nest egg".Â* That's a perfect description of me.Â* I worked long and hard
for what I have and I deeply resent the "gimme" attitude of a lot of
today's younger folk.

Having said that, I and a lot of my peers, learned cross country soaring
on our own, by trial and error, or with a mentor who would lead or
follow along on a flight and give advice.Â* Take a look at the cross
country soaring chapter of The American Soaring Handbook. There's all
the information you need to fly cross country.Â* And, no, it's not to my
knowledge available for display on your smart phone. Get off your ass,
quit complaining, and do something for yourself.

I know it's hard to hear that, but you can't always be led by the nose.
Dan, 5J
Thanks for your feedback, Dan. I apologize if I offended you (or anyone else that resembles that remark). That was not my intent. However, I am frustrated by the rising cost of so many things in soaring. I too, deeply resent the "gimme" attitude of so many younger folks today, and my comment about the nest egg was in no way intended to sound demanding of a hand-out, but rather that it is getting more difficult to start something or branch out from the normal operations unless you are sitting on a pile of money.

The idea of practicing with Condor really appeals to me. So does the idea of using a 1-26. However, here again, the price seems to be slowly climbing for a decent one of these too. Tackling the problem of instructors who feel incapable of teaching XC--well that's another matter I guess. But I like the idea of partnering with another member who does do XC to sit in the back seat of the 2-33.

--
Dan, 5J

hang it up, and has not had much interest in teaching cross-country flying, at least in part due to the club not having appropriate aircraft for training students to do this. While the Lark is perfectly capable of flying cross-country, it is still not regarded by club members as a good glider to learn this in.

At the recent SSA convention, some of the club officers were discussing the dilemma with other folks from other small clubs, and again and again they encountered the same problem--aging out CFIGs and club gliders not up to the task of learning cross-country flying in.

Most of the loudest voices we hear here on RAS seem to be indifferent to the plight of smaller clubs. These people are typically close to large metropolitan areas with a very large (and wealthy) population base to draw from, and are members of large, well-established, and well-funded clubs. But the reality is that there are many small clubs that don't have a CFIG that will teach cross-country or they don't have a club trainer they can teach it in, and they don't have a membership base that can support/afford a $50-75K glass two-seater capable of cross-country training, let alone a motor glider that could be used to practice going through the motions of off-field selection and setting up an approach. Why? Because they can't afford it.

So, in order to save the sport, get more more young people flying, and make it more accessible to people other than retired old men who are sitting on a nest egg large enough afford a new JS3 or Arcus M, what can we do? How can we make it more affordable?

For the most part I agree with Mr Foster and the plight of small soaring clubs. However, I do take major exception with his last remark regarding "retired old men who are sitting on a nest egg large enough (to) afford a new JS3 or Arcus M" - First but not foremost I am an old man 77 years of age and I passionately love aviation, particularly soaring. I have been blessed to have owned an older 2-33 and a used LS3a for too brief a time - Secondly, I have never been able to "sit on a nest egg" With luck my current nest egg (COVID19 aside)just might enable me to buy a high time 1-26. So John I am asking that if you know of anyone including yourself that would be willing to underwrite a small loan so I could die a happy man and fly an Arcus before I croak. Written with some humor.

I found it really difficult to get into XC flying locally, even at a club that was well staffed with great CFIs.
The solution was to join another club, that was located at one of the best soaring sites in the U.S. in Nevada. The instructors of my club were happy to teach XC flying there, but the prerequisite was really the location and the conditions.

I would encourage you to get to some good soaring sites (Ephrata, WA) in the summer where you can get a good feel of XC flying, or visit a well-established soaring site down south for e.g. two weeks.

On the other side, some clubs make weird decisions that make them look like a commercial-like operations and indirectly prevents their growth. E.g. they're not implementing a good, long-term financial plan to cover club glider accidents, but make pilots-at-fault responsible to pay a huge lump sum if something goes bad; this makes perfect sense for all the wealthy JS3 owners who already pay $500 for insurance, but just scares young generation pilots away.

Wearing my old foggies hat, a question: why is it necessary to
have an expensive glass two seater to teach cross country? I seem
to remember it was possible to set off on cross country in a "low"
performance single seater. Of course it resulted in field landings
and was a desperately slow way to learn. But it was the norm a
few decades ago; some instructors even flew X-country in K13s.
The extra costs of long aerotow retrieves from failed attempts are
very minor costs compared with the Club funding an Arcus Turbo.

I think a key issue is the mind-set of the Club instructors & X-
country pilots: a good Club is Key.

PS This method is probably why I am still so poor at X-country.