Glider Fire Sale

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 7:14:59 AM UTC-7, wrote:
... I DO NOT think it was a perfect kit...there maybe have been defects in the factory assembly of wings (maybe curing rates? maybe molds, I don't exactly know).

I toured the Aviastroitel factory in Moscow in 1999, when the AC-4 was being produced. All the structure was formed in a former Soviet aircraft factory outside Moscow, and then brought to Aviastroitel for finishing, completion and testing. All the structure was of good quality, but required a lot of finishing. So it could just be that a lot of finishing is required and those are the "defects" mentioned. After visiting Schleicher and Schempp-Hirth, the visit to Aviastroitel was fascinating. The Russians do an amazing job with very little.

I have traveled in Eastern Block countries. I was always amazed and how well the Russians lived on so little!
Could be their education level was very high, they are extremely strong people. Interesting place, it has been 20 years but I valued my time getting to know these people. As for the glider, I have no comment.

On Tue, 12 May 2020 08:25:02 -0700, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 7:14:59 AM UTC-7, wrote:
... I DO NOT think it was a perfect kit...there maybe have been
defects in the factory assembly of wings (maybe curing rates? maybe
molds, I don't exactly know).

I toured the Aviastroitel factory in Moscow in 1999, when the AC-4 was
being produced. All the structure was formed in a former Soviet
aircraft factory outside Moscow, and then brought to Aviastroitel for
finishing, completion and testing. All the structure was of good
quality, but required a lot of finishing. So it could just be that a
lot of finishing is required and those are the "defects" mentioned.
After visiting Schleicher and Schempp-Hirth, the visit to Aviastroitel
was fascinating. The Russians do an amazing job with very little.

I have traveled in Eastern Block countries. I was always amazed and how
well the Russians lived on so little!
Could be their education level was very high, they are extremely strong
people. Interesting place, it has been 20 years but I valued my time
getting to know these people. As for the glider, I have no comment.

I've also travelled in the old Eastern Block (Hungary, Czechoslovakia and
Yugoslavia as was), mainly for free flight model competitions. I met
Russian and Ukrainian model fliers there and at World and European
Championships between 1975 and 2003. Drank a certain amount of vodka with
them too.

Fine fellows with a sharp, ironic sense of humour. I remember a fairly
liquid session with Alex Andriukov (he moved to the US and joined the
Macready organisation when the USSR broke up). We were comparing cities,
as you do, and we were amazed at the low cost of public transport in
Kiev. Alex just grinned and said "In USSR we have a saying 'State
pretends to pay us and we pretend to work'".

Most of them spoke good, idiomatic English and had obviously had a very
good education. While the USSR existed their education system was free
through to PhD if you were good enough, and they had a free night school
system available for those who dropped out at the minimum school leaving
age and then, a few years later, realised that they really needed some
qualifications.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Dick Schreder told the story of the Soviet pilots at the 1965 International contest in England would clandestinely come over and take measurements of his HP-12 when they thought he wasn't looking. But at the end of the contest, he gave them a complete set of drawings as a goodwill gesture.

He also told the story that the Russian pilot asked to fly the HP-12. Schreder, said "sure", but only if he could fly the Soviet KAI-14. After the flight, Schreder told the Russian pilot he should receive the Soviet Medal of Valor for flying that ship in the poor weather and small fields of England.

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 10:02:13 AM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Tue, 12 May 2020 08:25:02 -0700, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 7:14:59 AM UTC-7, wrote:
... I DO NOT think it was a perfect kit...there maybe have been
defects in the factory assembly of wings (maybe curing rates? maybe
molds, I don't exactly know).

I toured the Aviastroitel factory in Moscow in 1999, when the AC-4 was
being produced. All the structure was formed in a former Soviet
aircraft factory outside Moscow, and then brought to Aviastroitel for
finishing, completion and testing. All the structure was of good
quality, but required a lot of finishing. So it could just be that a
lot of finishing is required and those are the "defects" mentioned.
After visiting Schleicher and Schempp-Hirth, the visit to Aviastroitel
was fascinating. The Russians do an amazing job with very little.

I have traveled in Eastern Block countries. I was always amazed and how
well the Russians lived on so little!
Could be their education level was very high, they are extremely strong
people. Interesting place, it has been 20 years but I valued my time
getting to know these people. As for the glider, I have no comment.

I've also travelled in the old Eastern Block (Hungary, Czechoslovakia and
Yugoslavia as was), mainly for free flight model competitions. I met
Russian and Ukrainian model fliers there and at World and European
Championships between 1975 and 2003. Drank a certain amount of vodka with
them too.

Fine fellows with a sharp, ironic sense of humour. I remember a fairly
liquid session with Alex Andriukov (he moved to the US and joined the
Macready organisation when the USSR broke up). We were comparing cities,
as you do, and we were amazed at the low cost of public transport in
Kiev. Alex just grinned and said "In USSR we have a saying 'State
pretends to pay us and we pretend to work'".

Most of them spoke good, idiomatic English and had obviously had a very
good education. While the USSR existed their education system was free
through to PhD if you were good enough, and they had a free night school
system available for those who dropped out at the minimum school leaving
age and then, a few years later, realised that they really needed some
qualifications.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

The USSR paid good students to go to college and to get higher degrees. I was also stunned at the level of detail and expertise in any field. I met people that went to college on a scholarship for film projection. In their curriculum was two years of EE and film direction, production and of course the classics. If you earned a degree in dance or astrophysics, you were still well educated in music, literature, art and all aspects of your field.. Their Md's were required to earn PhD's after five years. I meet people living on $70 a month, still dressing very fashionable, highly educated and one would not know how little they lived on until you were invited into their homes. One on one I found them to been very honest and interesting. Not real big on following rules though.

On Thursday, 7 May 2020 14:34:46 UTC-6, wrote:
Sad story and maybe somebody can help....

In early February, a good friend was killed in his AC-4C Russia glider. Now I'm helping his wife through some of the process of selling some of his outstanding equipment:

1. A meticulous trailer.
2. An unfinished AC-4C kit, still in the crate, that came from Aviastroitel in Russia. The plan was for his brother to complete the kit (sadly, his brother passed away from cancer a couple of years ago). I think it's taking up space in the barn....you would need a flat bed truck/trailer to move this thing. I DO NOT think it was a perfect kit...there maybe have been defects in the factory assembly of wings (maybe curing rates? maybe molds, I don't exactly know). However, parts wise, you'd have a set of never-used flight controls, linkage, seat pan, etc.

Looking for advice on selling, pricing, and maybe somebody would want the kit....probably a current owner of an AC-4 that has space.

Kindly,
Erik van Weezendonk
Northern Virginia

Hi Erik,

I'm interested in this - if it's still available, please PM me at jtapson at gmail etc.

regards,
Jon

Not quite sure I'd call it a MASSIVE fire sale but I believe prices will be coming down, quite a bit, on used ships.
Huge unemployment is here now and getting worse daily, and its only I'm afraid to get much worse over the Next 6 months. When you can't pay your mandatory food, power
wifi trash rent mortgage car payment that asset you have for recreation has got to go and fast.
This Virus is likely to be with us for at least 20-24 months IMHO, we've got to get used to it
One thing for sure; It is very contagious and now it is everywhere.
Nick
T

On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 10:48:43 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
Not quite sure I'd call it a MASSIVE fire sale but I believe prices will be coming down, quite a bit, on used ships.
Huge unemployment is here now and getting worse daily, and its only I'm afraid to get much worse over the Next 6 months. When you can't pay your mandatory food, power
wifi trash rent mortgage car payment that asset you have for recreation has got to go and fast.
This Virus is likely to be with us for at least 20-24 months IMHO, we've got to get used to it
One thing for sure; It is very contagious and now it is everywhere.
Nick
T

No it isn't going to be with us for 20-24 months. But they will keep telling us that to keep us under house arrest. And if it is 'very contagious' as you say everyone is going to get it anyway so start the world, mourn the dead, celebrate the newborns and get on with it. People need to think for themselves. Your precious experts are clowns. Here is what the architect of the global shutdown has been up to, doesn't sound like he believes in his own medicine: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ied-lover.html

On Fri, 08 May 2020 06:51:56 -0700, greggballou wrote:

Here is what the architect of the global shutdown has been up to,
doesn't sound like he believes in his own medicine:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...st-advice-led-
lockdown-QUITS-breaking-restrictions-meet-married-lover.html

If you believe anything you see in the Daily Fail, then you'll definitely
want to buy this bridge I happen to own across the East River in NYC.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 10:16:56 AM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Fri, 08 May 2020 06:51:56 -0700, greggballou wrote:

Here is what the architect of the global shutdown has been up to,
doesn't sound like he believes in his own medicine:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...st-advice-led-
lockdown-QUITS-breaking-restrictions-meet-married-lover.html

If you believe anything you see in the Daily Fail, then you'll definitely
want to buy this bridge I happen to own across the East River in NYC.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
Nice try. Same story in the telegraph link below. No idea of the hierarchy of British newspapers, story also covered by CNN, BBC, and a bunch of other normal outlets. Mr Lockdown doesn't believe in your new religion even though he created it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...igns-breaking/

On Fri, 08 May 2020 10:54:56 -0700, greggballou wrote:

Nice try. Same story in the telegraph link below.

That was a general observation, not specifically about that story. The
Sun, Daily Fail and the Torygraph are not news sources I trust.

If its on BBC Radio Four or in New Scientist its probably true.

Mr Lockdown doesn't believe in your new
religion even though he created it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ve-government-
scientist-neil-ferguson-resigns-breaking/

Thats a common problem with some elements of UK government and senior
civil servants: they are so far up their own arses they don't think the
rules they impose can possibly apply to themselves.

But don't make the mistake of thinking that this necessarily makes their
science invalid if they're scientists. Thats unlikely because peer review
is a fairly good way of keeping scientists honest. Mistakes and fraud
WILL be remembered. Remember Andrew Wakefield of MMR infamy? He's
thoroughly discredited these days and ignored by everybody outside the
lunatic fringe.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org