27 crash at Ely?

On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 7:47:54 PM UTC-4, 6PK wrote:
Hammer the rudder...now really??

It would explain some mysteries...

T8

Not a physical hammer
But a firm and quick response with ones foot to overcome running out of aileron

On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 3:17:55 PM UTC+1, Hightime wrote:
Not a physical hammer
But a firm and quick response with ones foot to overcome running out of aileron

....but only if you are sure that you have sufficient angle of attack reserve or are simultaneously controlling it

On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 10:17:55 AM UTC-4, Hightime wrote:
Not a physical hammer
But a firm and quick response with ones foot to overcome running out of aileron

This instructor observes that the universal tendency among pilots new to mountain flying is to over rudder (skid) turns when close to terrain and flying with a tailwind component. That's a dangerous practice that needs to be guarded against. What you are advocating seems to run counter to this.

T8

5Z and Tango Whiskey and Hightime speak the truth.

Every Glider Pilot both Flatlanders and Mountains pilots should know this life saving, pretty basic maneuver.
If your in a loosing battle with roll control it IS " Time to push and apply full or Hammer the rudder.
The push to near or at zero G is so important. No stall= No spin

Just last Saturday flying out of Nephi Ut in the flats of the valley over Yuba Res I had a thermal kick me into a 80 degree bank.
Full roll control wasn't enough so I pushed to about .1 G and full ruddered it back level. I've done this about 100 times in my soaring career.

Use all the controls to the max when things start to get sideways. And always Push forward.
A early flight instructor once said to me " move the controls to make the plane do what you want it to do".
This accident that started this thread is tough to take. Poor guy hit the hill.
I think its obvious when that happens he was too close.
Awful hard on his friends and family but it sounds like it was over very quickly.
Fly safe in 2020
Nick
T

On Thursday, July 23, 2020 at 1:27:58 PM UTC-7, Nick Kennedy wrote:
5Z and Tango Whiskey and Hightime speak the truth.

Every Glider Pilot both Flatlanders and Mountains pilots should know this life saving, pretty basic maneuver.
If your in a loosing battle with roll control it IS " Time to push and apply full or Hammer the rudder.
The push to near or at zero G is so important. No stall= No spin

Just last Saturday flying out of Nephi Ut in the flats of the valley over Yuba Res I had a thermal kick me into a 80 degree bank.
Full roll control wasn't enough so I pushed to about .1 G and full ruddered it back level. I've done this about 100 times in my soaring career.

Use all the controls to the max when things start to get sideways. And always Push forward.
A early flight instructor once said to me " move the controls to make the plane do what you want it to do".
This accident that started this thread is tough to take. Poor guy hit the hill.
I think its obvious when that happens he was too close.
Awful hard on his friends and family but it sounds like it was over very quickly.
Fly safe in 2020
Nick
T

Marak may well have tried this because the left-wing dropped (the left wingtip impacted first, leaving a ground scar as it shedded wingtip pieces), yet he turned to the right towards the ridge. This seems to indicate that he gave it full right rudder. Also, he had just cleared a rib that was 90 deg to the ridge and the wind was a tailwind over this rib which may have generated a vortex that started the whole sequence.

Tom

Marak may well have tried this because the left-wing dropped (the left wingtip impacted first, leaving a ground scar as it shedded wingtip pieces),

I wonder if he was thermaling left hand up the the ridge close and was pushed into the ridge hence the left wing hitting and then attempted to roll out.... well I guess they have the igc file and will find this out... eventually.

He also had ADS-B out in case the igc file not working. And if neither is available, his flight trace can be reconstructed from other flarms nearby, including those on the ground. I hope the NTSB and the folks helping them are aware of it.

Ramy

Nick Kennedy wrote on 7/23/2020 1:27 PM:
Just last Saturday flying out of Nephi Ut in the flats of the valley over Yuba Res I had a thermal kick me into a 80 degree bank.
Full roll control wasn't enough so I pushed to about .1 G and full ruddered it back level. I've done this about 100 times in my soaring career.

Wow! That's never happened to me! In 6000+ hours of flying all over North America
- never have I been pushed more than 20 degrees or so. Just luck can't explain
that difference, so I wonder what we are doing differently that I've never been in
danger, and you've been there 100 times.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Thursday, July 23, 2020 at 6:06:49 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Nick Kennedy wrote on 7/23/2020 1:27 PM:
Just last Saturday flying out of Nephi Ut in the flats of the valley over Yuba Res I had a thermal kick me into a 80 degree bank.
Full roll control wasn't enough so I pushed to about .1 G and full ruddered it back level. I've done this about 100 times in my soaring career.

Wow! That's never happened to me! In 6000+ hours of flying all over North America
- never have I been pushed more than 20 degrees or so. Just luck can't explain
that difference, so I wonder what we are doing differently that I've never been in
danger, and you've been there 100 times.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

I have had some upsets of this magnitude. I remember having my (glider's) tail lifted nearly vertically. I have also encountered roll clouds that rolled me 90 degrees.

Tom