Scary story about landing on a Lake Tahoe golf course

I would think land gear up. It might float indefinitely. Depends on how much foam/wood is in it. I would certainly try and get out as quick as I could.

As one who has done it, they float well. How long I dont know, as I made it a point to get it to shore asap. There is a lot of air trapped in the wings, I expect it would be a long time before it sank.

In my case, I was flying again in under 24hrs, the only electronics I lost was the one thing that was supposed to be waterproof, my ELT. Aircraft damage was limited to one cracked gear door.

I had heard a briefing on landing in the water, vents shut, gear down, away from shore(dont know what is hidden under the water), wings level, slow as posable, and flaps, spoilers closed.

The gear down part is the counter intuitive part, but this little kitchen demonstration will show why. Hold a spoon so it is just dangling from the handle between you fingertips. Try to hold it so the spoon is down, but can pivot in the convex direction. Turn on the tap and just touch the bottom of the spoon to the stream. It will suck into the stream. Gear down will help avoid this.

Also most gliders have the gear well sealed so the water will not enter from there.

In my case in the cocpit I had about 1.5 inches of freeboard at the cocpit sides when I was in it, but watter was comming in from the nose hook, and comming in the fusalage from the rudder. I got out and side stroked and towed the glider to shore. It towed very easily because it was such a clean shape.

As for safety, if the water was not dangerously cold, you are probably safe in the water, but you risk damaging you electronics. Note, in the 99% category, you dont often have a chance of drowning in a land based Landout.

These days, in my ash-31 I would be very reluctant, but in a composite "gravity glider" it is way better than the trees...

On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 5:56:27 PM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 2:56:33 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
Good part was it was late in the day and there were no golfers on this hole:

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....l?dsId=8033935

Glad you're ok and no big damage or golfers injured. And now someone else gets a chance on OLC for a few weeks!

I usually don't try Sergio's unless I see wind on the lake. Good streaks or whitecaps needed, well before I cannot escape over the back to Carson.

The water south of sand harbor looks possible.

I've seen traces that retreat to the Carson valley via the 50 gap.

I gather the golf course in Kings beach has also been landed on, but these seem very chancy.

Anyone else have a half decent plan B for the Tahoe basin?

John Cochrane

This land out really highlights the need for a good short game when flying XC. If you had a two stroke, you wouldn't have been penalized. Good drive to the green! Stay safe everyone.

On 7/26/20 10:03 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 5:56:27 PM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 2:56:33 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
Good part was it was late in the day and there were no golfers on this hole:

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....l?dsId=8033935

Glad you're ok and no big damage or golfers injured. And now someone else gets a chance on OLC for a few weeks!

I usually don't try Sergio's unless I see wind on the lake. Good streaks or whitecaps needed, well before I cannot escape over the back to Carson.

The water south of sand harbor looks possible.

I've seen traces that retreat to the Carson valley via the 50 gap.

I gather the golf course in Kings beach has also been landed on, but these seem very chancy.

Anyone else have a half decent plan B for the Tahoe basin?

John Cochrane

This land out really highlights the need for a good short game when flying XC. If you had a two stroke, you wouldn't have been penalized. Good drive to the green! Stay safe everyone.


I think he scored a birdie didn't he?

Better than a two-stroke handicap, with an electric he could have just
flipped a switch, turned a knob, and ended up in an attic. Worked great
for the guy in Connecticut. And that Kawa guy in Italy.

kinsell wrote on 7/27/2020 1:51 AM:
On 7/26/20 10:03 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 5:56:27 PM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 2:56:33 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
Good part was it was late in the day and there were no golfers on this hole:

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....l?dsId=8033935

Glad you're ok and no big damage or golfers injured. And now someone else gets
a chance on OLC for a few weeks!

I usually don't try Sergio's unless I see wind on the lake. Good streaks or
whitecaps needed, well before I cannot escape over the back to Carson.

The water south of sand harbor looks possible.

I've seen traces that retreat to the Carson valley via the 50 gap.

I gather the golf course in Kings beach has also been landed on, but these seem
very chancy.

Anyone else have a half decent plan B for the Tahoe basin?

John Cochrane

This land out really highlights the need for a good short game when flying XC.
If you had a two stroke, you wouldn't have been penalized.* Good drive to the
green!* Stay safe everyone.


I think he scored a birdie didn't he?

Better than a two-stroke handicap, with an electric he could have just flipped a
switch, turned a knob, and ended up in an attic.* Worked great for the guy in
Connecticut.* And that Kawa guy in Italy.

And 100s of uneventful saves by electric gliders we never hear about, because they
were successful. The two incidents you mention were caused by pilot errors, not
electric glider failures.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Monday, July 27, 2020 at 8:54:44 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
kinsell wrote on 7/27/2020 1:51 AM:
On 7/26/20 10:03 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 5:56:27 PM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 2:56:33 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
Good part was it was late in the day and there were no golfers on this hole:

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....l?dsId=8033935

Glad you're ok and no big damage or golfers injured. And now someone else gets
a chance on OLC for a few weeks!

I usually don't try Sergio's unless I see wind on the lake. Good streaks or
whitecaps needed, well before I cannot escape over the back to Carson..

The water south of sand harbor looks possible.

I've seen traces that retreat to the Carson valley via the 50 gap.

I gather the golf course in Kings beach has also been landed on, but these seem
very chancy.

Anyone else have a half decent plan B for the Tahoe basin?

John Cochrane

This land out really highlights the need for a good short game when flying XC.
If you had a two stroke, you wouldn't have been penalized.Â* Good drive to the
green!Â* Stay safe everyone.


I think he scored a birdie didn't he?

Better than a two-stroke handicap, with an electric he could have just flipped a
switch, turned a knob, and ended up in an attic.Â* Worked great for the guy in
Connecticut.Â* And that Kawa guy in Italy.

And 100s of uneventful saves by electric gliders we never hear about, because they
were successful. The two incidents you mention were caused by pilot errors, not
electric glider failures.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Starting an electric motor now counts as a "save"? :-)

T8

On Monday, July 27, 2020 at 5:54:44 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
kinsell wrote on 7/27/2020 1:51 AM:
On 7/26/20 10:03 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 5:56:27 PM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 2:56:33 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
Good part was it was late in the day and there were no golfers on this hole:

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....l?dsId=8033935

Glad you're ok and no big damage or golfers injured. And now someone else gets
a chance on OLC for a few weeks!

I usually don't try Sergio's unless I see wind on the lake. Good streaks or
whitecaps needed, well before I cannot escape over the back to Carson..

The water south of sand harbor looks possible.

I've seen traces that retreat to the Carson valley via the 50 gap.

I gather the golf course in Kings beach has also been landed on, but these seem
very chancy.

Anyone else have a half decent plan B for the Tahoe basin?

John Cochrane

This land out really highlights the need for a good short game when flying XC.
If you had a two stroke, you wouldn't have been penalized.Â* Good drive to the
green!Â* Stay safe everyone.


I think he scored a birdie didn't he?

Better than a two-stroke handicap, with an electric he could have just flipped a
switch, turned a knob, and ended up in an attic.Â* Worked great for the guy in
Connecticut.Â* And that Kawa guy in Italy.

And 100s of uneventful saves by electric gliders we never hear about, because they
were successful. The two incidents you mention were caused by pilot errors, not
electric glider failures.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Any crash involving an inoperative powerplant on an auxiliary glider cannot be blamed on the power plant. That failure only made obvious the chain of errors the pilot made prior to its attempted use.

On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 8:56:27 PM UTC-4, John Cochrane wrote:
I've seen traces that retreat to the Carson valley via the 50 gap.

I did that once, and pretty much followed the terrain down 50.
Even though no useful ridge lift inside the bowl, plenty of
sink on the lee side. Crossed the valley and ridge soared back
to Minden. Won't do that again...

Glad you're OK Ramy!

On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 5:56:27 PM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 2:56:33 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
Good part was it was late in the day and there were no golfers on this hole:

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....l?dsId=8033935

Glad you're ok and no big damage or golfers injured. And now someone else gets a chance on OLC for a few weeks!

I usually don't try Sergio's unless I see wind on the lake. Good streaks or whitecaps needed, well before I cannot escape over the back to Carson.

The water south of sand harbor looks possible.

I've seen traces that retreat to the Carson valley via the 50 gap.

I gather the golf course in Kings beach has also been landed on, but these seem very chancy.

Anyone else have a half decent plan B for the Tahoe basin?

John Cochrane

Sergio (and a few like him) would enter Spooner Pass with sufficient altitude to take one pass at the Elevator, then exit if it did not work. Even in the best circumstance, this is a very risky move. Most of us Truckee regulars believe that if you are low enough to feel any ridge lift there, you are WAY TOO LOW. A retrieve from Carson is very inexpensive compared to even slight damage to a glider, let alone a funeral (and attempts at the Elevator have resulted in both). Ramy found an empty fairway, but even checking it with a crosswind pass does not guarantee that some duffer won't wander back out on your final, having retrieved his slice from the woods.

On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 5:56:33 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
Good part was it was late in the day and there were no golfers on this hole:

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3....l?dsId=8033935

Glad this turned out mostly well. Good advice to heed and lessons learned. Thanks for sharing.